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Sticky trick: new glue spray kills plant pests without chemicals
(www.theguardian.com)
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this post was submitted on 18 May 2024
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97% of all insects are beneficials, meaning they are completely harmless or predate on the insects that eat your crops.
But sure, kill them all because bugs ewww.
Edit: Apparently this isn't so obvious to people. Ok, let me explain:
No pesticide can be precisely targeted. You will always capture or kill more insects that are beneficial than are not. In the article it mentions that the sticky spray doesn't capture bigger insects like bees. That's certainly progress over other types of physical traps, but not all insects are very big. Key beneficials like lady bugs, green lacewings, various spiders, pirate bugs, etc are very small. They will be trapped by this spray. If it traps a thrip, it will trap those bugs (and the study abstract says this - "small anthropods"). This isn't mentioned in the article but I can speak to this from personal experience farming. I've tried various options and the results are always the same - you may get rid of some thrips (and boy do I have thrips) but you also wipe out the insects that will eat the thrips and you end up in a kind of arms race. The more beneficials you kill the more pesticides you need.
Ecologist here ... you're absolutely right. We can have less efficient agriculture that doesn't require indiscriminate killing of species.
Not surprised you got downvoted here, the literal grass-touching prevalence on this site is extremely low.
Thank you!
One of the big lies of modern industrialized agriculture is that we have a production problem. We don't! We have a "profit problem" in the sense that industrialized food producers demand ever greater profits which means they have to continually find ways to get people to eat more "value", in volume and/or value-added processes.
In reality we have a distribution problem that is caused by industrialization and centralization. The real solution is decentralization and diversification.
🫰🏻🫰🏻Yes! We don't need to all eat the same things everywhere. I don't need avocados shipped in from Chile. Local foods is a great way to increase efficiency as well, there is less loss from transportation. But it does mean that you can't eat the same things everywhere you go. If we want to live in a sustainable way, there are big policy changes that need to happen, but those policy changes would lead to changes in our everyday lifestyle. The party's over, we see the results happening right before our eyes and being able to eat the same McDonald's cheeseburger in every country is not worth the cost of mass extinction.
"boy do I have thrips" triggered a funny memory.
When I worked in Ag. Research we had a big international field day. People from 50+ countries visiting in. I got the wonderful job of doing presentations in the field all day long. This was in late summer on a bad thrip year.
Well, one of the office goons decided that they would order all the staff polo shirts for the three day event. We were all supposed to wear the same color on the specified day.
They ordered in a light blue, yellow, and green polos. The first day was to be light blue. I "accidentally" wore the green one instead and had a few very irate office goons on my back first off that morning. Strangely enough all of the experienced outdoor staff "accidently" wore the green shirt as well.
For those that don't know, thrips are highly attracted to light blue and they bite. I laughed my ass off most of the day.
The following two days everyone wore green. Except for the one determined office goon who wore the yellow shirt. In a field full of honeybee hives...
It's not because they're gross, it's because they eat our food. And we grow monocultures so it's a perfect breeding ground for pests. Also if you read the article the new pesticide is physical and doesn't harm large predatory insects.
No pesticide that physically traps insects is specific to one kind. It's not really possible. It may not capture bees, but it will capture other smaller insects than thrips that do no harm. For example green lacewing larva.
I'm not fighting you. It's just you're acting as if the reason we research pesticides isn't because we need it to protect our food source.
I'm not even saying that there isn't some possible alternative, I'm just saying monoculture grains is how humanity gets most of its calories right now. It's how we currently survive. That requires pesticides. These pesticides are far less damaging to the world than the current ones in use right now. It's in the research phase too, so it's not like we're committing to this specific idea. Everyone knows there are pros and cons, the scientists doing the research do too. You're not the first person to realise that this will trap all small insects. Just a reminder that our current solution kills all insects and this one is better. The fact it doesn't harm bees is already a massive improvement.
Everyone should be welcome and encouraged to research any idea that's better than our current ideas in any way. Any knowledge is good knowledge.
As for your preferred ideas? There are lots of ways to help be part of a future that includes what you feel is the best solution. That being said, none of them include being disingenuous about why we use pesticides in the first place. I don't know why that was contentious to you. We don't kill bugs because they're gross, we kill them because they eat our food.
Fundamentally you misinterpreted what I said. I'm not being disingenuous about why we use pesticides, I'm simply saying we are doing it wrong and should not use any. The whole premise of "we must use pesticides or we'll starve" is, to put it simply, a fallacy. Because we are no longer producing food so we don't starve but so that huge corporations can profit more.
The big problems with the "well this is slightly better than the alternative" are: First, the alternatives don't necessarily kill all insects - they can be highly targeted too. Secondly, killing any beneficials is treading backwards. The more beneficials you kill the more you need things to kill the pests. In other words, it's pushing "solutions" in completely the wrong direction. And industrial ag pursues this with such fervor it's accelerating the process to the point where we may have no functional insect populations left. This is an existential threat.
In fact they don't in the large scheme of things. Or as the joke goes, they only eat a little.
I think this sums up your misinterpretation of what I'm saying and I concede it's understandable because I was a little obscure in my jest. The "eww gross" line comes from a basic prejudice that people have about insects - that they are always pests and don't serve an important purpose. And so our approach to pest control has always been one of "insect bad! kill them all!". Even the fact that if someone finds a bug in their store-bought produce - and I've seen this with my own eyes - they are inclined to take it back. That's the level of ridiculous over-reaction we have when in reality we should be enlisting the help of the insect world.
And I can personally attest this works on a commercial scale.
Using sustainable practices "they only eat a little" is totally valid. The way we farm now.... A pest outbreak will ravage a monoculture crop.
I know there are great alternatives, but they all have higher labour requirements. Modern capitalism can't tolerate that. If we can find a better solution now we can mitigate the damage before we end capitalism. After that we can definitely switch to more labour intensive sustainable practices. I'm not an accelerationist so I'm not rushing to end the current world order before trying to make all the improvements we can.
On #1 - a diversified farm growing "speciality crops" (USDA speak for food we consume directly instead of commodities) will typically have margins >20% and can easily net $25k or more an acre. In commodities, even the highest net for almonds and pistachios might only get you $1.2-1.5k per acre. Many commodities like corn can have a negative margin and only survive through subsidies.
All this matters because farmers have literally been digging their own graves and become little more than share croppers. It's so hard to be viable direct to consumer there is little choice - a really classic example being chicken production where it's virtually impossible to be an independent producer because companies like Tyson have made sure all the regulations favor them. So now they'll loan you the money for facilities you'll never pay off and you have no choice but to sell to them at whatever price they set.
I like what you're saying and I agree with it fundamentally. I wish it is possible to have the majority of crops be direct to consumer. I KNOW everyone is happier when they have a real personal relationship with the products they consume. That's even part of what marketing abuses when it anthropomorphises brands.
I'm personally pessimistic on that front though, I think it can't happen in modern capitalism for two major reasons. Number one, I don't think the majority of the population of Western nations, let alone the world, can tolerate even a moderate increase in food prices without creating massive instability. I know what the "middle men" jack up prices considerably on almost everything, but the staples: wheat and meat in my part of the world, simply cannot be sold cheaper by smaller operations than grocery store prices (in part due to the regulatory capture so prevalent in modern capitalism). Number two, of the people that CAN tolerate the increase, I don't think modern capitalism would allow their profits to be undercut by a significant shift towards small producers selling direct to customers. They have a few tools that I just don't think most people are prepared to live without like comfort and consistency. I can get plums, cauliflower, tomatoes, broccoli ANYTIME OF YEAR at reasonably consistent prices. The idea that people will have to pay more AND change to seasonal eating habits where they just can't get certain things most of the year? I think we're too far into the comfort of bourgeois decadence, excuse my communist language, to tolerate the change.
I will say I have enjoyed this discussion and I certainly agree that I mischaracterised you by initially latching onto a throwaway "ew bugs" comment.
It will harm any insect the same size as the target ones. Insects have so so many ecological benefits, as pollinators, as part of the food chain, as unique and amazing creatures in and of themselves, they may contain chemicals and biological systems we don't yet understand but that future generations will benefit from the knowledge of. We need to protect our biodiversity.
they help create your food.
It's literally in the post. Not even in the article, it's in the synopsis. Why didn't you read that before commenting?
Can you be more precise? When you say "it" is "literally in the post" what exactly is "it"? Serious question because yes I read the article.
I would surmise that you are referring to the line "while bigger beneficial insects, like bees, are not trapped by the drops".
The problem here is the word "bigger". So great, it doesn't trap bees, that's something of a step forward. But it will trap other non-targeted smaller insects.
Thrips aren't beneficial.
Um. No kidding. Did you read the article? (Edit: that I linked to)
Edit: My point, which seems to be completely lost on most people here is that no physical means of trapping insects is going to only target the problem insects. You will always capture more of the insects you didn't mean to harm. Source: me, having tried sticky traps and various oils in commercial farming settings.
Most of us totally got your point 🙂
Who is "most of us" and which point?
I'm left wondering if you read it. It doesn't make the assertion you do:
This seems self-evident, but I have to ask why you didn't cite a source that backs that up before slapping me with an "Um.No kidding."
Maybe your communication skills are less developed than you realize?
Is this your standard mode of discussion? You are very unclear.
You end up looking at economic thresholds and add on some of the beneficial as part of that equation. If the bad bug destroys the crop entirely, then there's nothing there for the beneficial to benefit.
And yah, yah, its not all about the crops, but in the end, it's all about the crop or people are starving.