this post was submitted on 03 Aug 2023
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Most of us don't like Trump, most of us don't like the bombings in other countries, most of us didn't want to be in Vietnam, most of us didn't want us to be in Iraq.
I don't look at every person in the UK and assume you all love the Monarchy and love the current and past two morons you have had running the place. I mean fuck Rishi Sunak, Liz Truss, and Boris Johnson and Brexit? Shit isn't lookin great over that way either but I don't assume it's because every single citizen of the UK wanted it that way. Quit looking at America like one big collective individual and take a moment to realize that the system here is rigged to shit from years of political fuckery. We are stuck with a two party system and the past two presidents who did the most damage to our foreign relations and our political system didn't even win the fucking popular vote.
Oh and if I incorrectly assumed you nationality just fill in the appropriate bullshit that is probably happening in your current country.
Sincerely,
One of the majority of Americans that don't like what is happening in this country either
What, come on, everyone knows that having four prime ministers in two years is the sign of a stable government.
The monarchy in charge would probably result in a better political situation to be honest.
Did their government change? Did the military take over? No, the timing party just decided to elect a new front man to distract the population while the Tories resort and pillage society
I think change starts by taking an honest assessment of the situation, and the statement above is easily disproven:
It doesn't matter that public support shifted later - of course people feel bad about doing something bad after the fact. But at the time, most Americans did want you to be in Vietnam and most Americans did want you to be in Iraq.
I'm sure that the people in your social circle do disagree with those wars and do disagree with some of the more recent things which have happened, but you need to understand that sometimes the majority does sadly support some very bad things.
We don't make the decision to go to war the government does that without our input. The public supported for the war in Iraq after the government decided to go to war then spread propaganda saying that Iraq was related to 9/11. Those are graphs of how effective propaganda was on those polled after the government made a decision to go to war... we don't vote on that shit.
That is the propaganda losing the battle. People found out that the person (supposedly) responsible for 9/11 was in Afghanistan and had nothing to do with Iraq.
Vietnam was the same but it took longer for the general public to find out the truth. The government decides to go to war and spreads propaganda everywhere about why we needed to go to Vietnam. Propaganda weakens as real information about the war spreads then people no longer support the war.
Americans are not just inherently warmongering people I don't think any citizens of any country are.....unless their government has a super effective propaganda machine constantly brain fucking them into being that way (see Russia).
My social circles? I live in the Midwest there are people in my neighborhood with flags up that say "Fuck Biden Don't blame me I Voted for Trump" in their front yards here. I have seen the worst of Americans and they are not the majority even here. There are some dumb fuck gravy seals that cosplay as soldiers and act like war is a solution to anything and everything but most of the people here who support Trump and have that "America first" mindset are just well meaning morons that fell prey to propaganda.
I am well aware that propaganda works champ the idea that there are brief periods of support for such things somehow cancels that the majority of the time the majority of everyone doesn't support such things is moronic.
First:
Then:
What you're saying is there was a period of time where the war had support of the public. This is what Deceptichum is saying is not normal. There should not be any period where the majority of Americans thought invading Iraq was a good idea. This part is what the problem is.
Nice cherry pickin champ. You are a moron.
Edit: You edited your comment to add that last point to it then claimed I didn't respond to the point.. that you edited in after the fact. Double moron points for you.
I notice you didn't actually respond to my point, and then you got angry and started calling names.
You are treating Americans as a monolith. We don't make the decision to go to war our government does then spews propaganda in the media and it can shift public opinion.
You posted two graphs with no sources and claimed that my statements were disproved when I never said "Americans never support war ever and if you can find a single instance of it happening for any period of time then everything I have said is wrong."
I called you a moron because you cherry picked information from my statement then acted like it was self canceling.
What the fuck are you quoting? You never said that in your original comment.
Edit: ahhh you edited your comment. Originally you said "are you actually listening to yourself" or something similar then you edited it to that shit after I called you a moron for cherry pickin. Well now you are a moron for cherry picking and a moron for editing comments after replies.
Thankfully Lemmy has timestamps. My comment was edited 5 minutes before yours was made, not after:
You seem to have a large chip on your shoulder and I'm not sure why. I haven't said anything insulting to you, and yet the stream of vitriol continues.
I am not. The only thing I've done is respond to your claim that "most of us didn’t want to be in Vietnam, most of us isn’t didn’t want us to be in Iraq", and let you know that it's not factually correct. Most Americans did support both of those wars at the start.
When I replied it wasn't there 5 minutes is a small window so I guess I had the reply open and didn't type it immediately and if I had refreshed before replying maybe I would have seen your seemingly stealth edit that completely changed the content of your comment. My reply makes sense when compared to your original comment but luckily you edited it quickly and here we are.
Anytime I edit a comment that changes the content of the comment I mark it as an edit. I edit comments to fix grammar and stuff without marking it because it seems tedious.
You are still acting like we went to war because Americans supported it when the truth is it works more like how it is described in Manufactured Consent by Edward S. Herman and Noam Chomsky. The mass media in the united states is used as a propaganda tool to make Americans complicit with decisions made by the government after those decisions are made.
So if you think Americans not being resistant to propaganda is a problem.... then yeah I think so too. If you are saying that the problem is that Americans should never support a war ever no matter how much propaganda is thrown at them then.....ok cool? I mean that is kind of reductive and stupid does nothing to solve or understand any problem but ...cool..I guess?
“most of us didn’t want to be in Vietnam, most of us isn’t didn’t want us to be in Iraq”
how is this wrong? I never said most of us never wanted to be in Iraq to begin with or most of us never wanted to go to Vietnam both don't matter because we had no choice in the matter. Your two graphs of polls (without sources or reference to methodology) don't show how many people were indifferent to the war in Vietnam in the beginning but do show that well before any of them reached their end Americans did not want it happening.
You keep trying to pick at me saying I am angry and have a chip on my shoulder. I called you a moron for cherry picking and somehow this means I am angry with a chip on my shoulder? Sure I am super mad grrrrrr anger rageeeeee! Unlike that Deceptichum person who was calm collected and wonderfully stated all their opinions.
Why did you even mention Deceptichum? Their point wasn't anything like the point you are claiming to make now .....their point was "Americans Bad" which is reductive and stupid. I have all kinds of problems with the governments of countries but I don't make sweeping generalizations and assumptions about all the citizens of those countries.
Your point is Americans should never hold the opinion that going to war is ok ... or that at the beginning of both the conflict in Vietnam and the Iraq war too many Americans supported it.... I don't know anymore and it really feels like your actual point is to try and catch me with some weird gotcha moment.
Most of you vote for this every fucking time.
Stop acting like you’re not responsible for the state of your own country; fucking pathetic.
No we fuckin don't. You are ignorant as to how things work here. Go read then formulate an educated opinion or just shut up.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_suppression_in_the_United_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Electoral_College
Oh fuck off mate, accept a bit of responsibility in your pathetic life.
No one else on this planet is responsible for America except Americans.
You allow this system to flourish and support it year after year. Just because a small percentage of your population can’t vote doesn’t mean shit when you were founded without the right to vote.
Yupp me and the other Americans were like "Lets push SCOTUS to rule on Citizens United in a way that allows unchecked amounts of money in politics and also lets create a system that lets a candidate that loses the popular vote become president anyway!" we all worked really hard at it... or we watched and let it happen without protesting or trying to change it at all....
....or that is completely wrong and you could go read both those articles I linked and realize that "the majority of us" literally did not vote for this shit and or voted against it.
You and the other Americans instead were like “let’s do nothing and complain”.
Tell me, who do you think is responsible for America if not Americans?
Ok genius since you are so well versed on the topic.... tell me the solution? You know the solution to the problem you didn't even know about because you started off saying the MAJORITY of us voted for this shit? I mean it will come to a head if the system breaks down but what exactly should we do now?
You keep moving the bar and now you are claiming that I am saying Americans are not responsible at all for the system we have. I am saying the majority of us didn't vote for it, the majority of us are trapped in it and the majority of us have no simple solution to fixing it but you must have a stellar solution in your keen political mind so lets have it! What should us Americans do to fix the problems (which you are completely ignorant of) within our government?
The British.
Why is everyone downvoting this guy? He's right.
Who tf else is going to fix us? There are a ton reasons why it's extra challenging to effectively come together like the French do against their government, but it's still up to us to change shit.
No, we actually don't. You're entirely wrong.
Yes you actually do.
Hillary won the popular vote by QUITE a bit.
And I’d be laughing at you if she was your president as well.
What a disgrace they’ve all been.