740
Pulling it off
(lemmy.world)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 05 Apr 2024
740 points (80.8% liked)
Memes
45657 readers
573 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
Is authoritarianism just vibes? What makes Marx not authoritarian?
https://www.britannica.com/topic/authoritarianism
I'm aware of the dictionary definition, I want to know why you think Marxism is fine while Marxism-Leninism isn't. How is Marxism-Leninism authoritarian, when Marxism isn't? Have you read Critique of the Gotha Programme? You're "anarchist-washing" Marx, who advocated for a democratically run Worker-State, just like Marxism-Leninism does. All Lenin adds is a critique of Imperialism, the concept of Democratic Centralism (which is already the de-facto form of democratic decision making in the world), and the idea of a Vanguard Party being necessary.
That's why I'm saying you're purely operating off vibes. It's 100% okay to be an Anarchist that appreciates Marx's critique of Capitalism, and even Lenin's critique of Imperialism, while instead preferring Anarchism in action, or even Reformist Socialism, but don't pretend Marx was some hero of anarchism or something.
I never made any characterization of Marx-Leninism. I think you're wildly misattributing that philosophy to the hex-bear crowd.
On what grounds? They read Marx and Lenin, discuss their works, and personally claim to be Marxist-Leninists. If you aren't referring to Marxism-Leninism, then what are you referring to?
To be honest, I don't really think you're engaging in good faith.
I think being demonstrably pro-Russian anti-Ukraine is one such example. I think they coddled the Chinese government too much. The allies they have do not align with true communist values.
I am engaging in good faith, you've been disengaging and dodging questions, which is frustrating.
I understand that you don't have much exposure to hexbear with a .world account, but I see them a lot. It isn't sufficient to say "pro-russia" or "anti-ukraine," it's more accurate to say that they oppose NATO as the largest coalition of Imperialist states in the world, presently, following Lenin's analysis of Imperialism.
Same with China, China is currently the largest actually existing Socialist state, so they have critical support for what the CPC does. This is with the notion that people are driven by Material Conditions and Material Reality with respect to Mode of Production drives history.
Hexbear is largely Marxist-Leninist, and you'll find that Marxist-Leninists largely agree with Hexbear, regardless of where you find them.
That's why I am asking why you claim Hexbear is authoritarian, but Marx isn't. Hexbear doesn't simply support authoritarianism, but opposes Imperialist countries along Lenin's analysis. Marx additionally wasn't a Utopian, but a Scientific Socialist.
I have ample experience with these people. That's why I created an account here. They bullied me with mod supported targeted harassment because I wasn't communist enough or something.
Do you have an example?
Sure. I reported a death threat, the mods posted the report to dunktank, and the mobs came after me.
The account has, understandably, been deleted. Weeks of harassment.
I'm sorry to hear that. I still don't see where that makes Hexbear authoritarian, though.
I thought you asked for examples of harassment...
No, their pro CCP and Kremlin takes are enough for the latter.
Particularly that they are pro Ukranian invasion. I could even buy an anti US imperialism stance. but they are instead pro Russian imperialism.
That was in response to me telling you how they operate and aren't simply "authoritarian supporters", to which you said you have "ample experience."
Support for the CPC is still Marxist, and opposing NATO is also Marxist. Hexbear does not support the Kremlin from what I have seen. You say you're a Marxist but disagree with this, which is why I am asking what you think Marx wanted that Hexbear doesn't, or vice-versa.
Marx didint even believe in an established government. Much less one that invades a soveriegn nation such as Ukraine. Are you implying imperialism is compatible with the views of Marx?
There's a differnece in being anti NATO and pro Ukraine invasion.
Marx absolutely believed in an established government, read Critique of the Gotha Programme. Marx advocated for a worker-state until class was abolished, then the instruments used to opress one class by another would be abolished. The government would remain. Read Engels' On Authority for more information. You're "anarchist-washing" Marx.
Marx wouldn't support the invasion of Ukraine, and neither does Hexbear. Hexbear supports a ceasefire.
Im sorry, but your facts are wrong man, namely that hexbear does not support the invasion.
At this point Im choosing to block you. Ive already gotten away from the tankies once. No interested in trying to argue with one again.
Do you have any proof? What have I been wrong about? Why am I a tankie for suggesting that you read Marx?