I thought I'd chuck windows on my gaming laptop an Acer nitro 5 from last year, to see how it's going do some bits I can't on Linux VR, certain multiplayer games etc.
What a disaster! I've spent the whole day brute forcing drivers and generally dicking about trying to get my setup sorted.
Upon installation, Wi-Fi drivers don't exist, so you cannot use the internet while installing if you're on Wi-Fi. Mint's had this since what 2006? But that's cool, Cortana is here to chat away and not understand any requests. Once finally in the OS after 20 questions that could be considered harassment if it was a person, nothing was ready to go. Every single driver needed sourcing and installing.
People have the cheek to complain about Linux's Nvidia install, literally two clicks on most distros if it isn't already baked in. Go to website find driver, download click click click agree click wait more software click click wait.
Plug in my sound card OK it's a bit old now UA-25 but nothing happens...hmm find obscure video partially install a driver from Vista then cancel the installation program so you can side load a driver from 8,1 but wait there's more disable core isolation to allow the driver to work reboot into a now slightly more compromised OS.
OK plug in wheel again not new stuff G25 oh it works cool. Oh, no H-shifter OK download driver. "Can't find device, ensure it's plugged in". Windows decided it knew better, downloaded its own driver that blocks the official one and loads a steering wheel as a gamepad..GG cool cool.
I do not understand why we still have this image that Windows is noob friendly, it's such a convoluted obfuscated process to do anything. It does worse than nothing, it thinks it's smart enough to carry out tasks on the user behalf and just bork it.
All of these issues are because I don't have the new shiny things, but it really highlighted why I love Linux now if you'll excuse me I'm going to install a distro and play on my 20-year-old peripherals
They absolutely exist, but perhaps isn't part of the installer.
Windows Update solves 95% of that automatically these days, as long as you have internet it will sort it out for you.
This an external USB sound card from 2004, Roland has drivers for it working on Windows 98/ME/XP/2000/Vista/7/8/8.1 it is a 20 year old card, it awesome that it works on Linux, but you can't blame Roland or Microsoft for not supporting a 20 year old device on the latest versions of the OS.
You are whining about a modern OS not being compatible with a 18 year old steering wheel? You can't expect indefinite hardware support for every random little device you happen to find, this like the sound card above is on you, not Microsoft.
None of the above quoted examples are noob issues, this is like you are talking to a person in old english from the mideval times and being mad that a random guy in the middle of Londing in 2024 can't understand you.
A noob would realize that their devices were too old and buy new devices.
Windows is noob friendly in that most software have a Windows version, most people use it, it is a known variable.
Like it or not, Windows is the defacto standard, and that means that is it safe in the perspective of a noob user.
I am saying all of this as an IT guy who has worked professionally with both Linux and Windows, I ran Linux as my main OS for a year or two, I LIKE Linux, but this is not fair critisism of Windows.
It’s concerning that you think “just buy new stuff” is reasonable and that Windows should only work on new hardware out of the box.
It's concerning that you insinuate that 20 year old hardware just works in Linux.
Just because a 20 year old sound card happens to work in your favorite Linux distro doesn't in any way mean that it will work forever or that there are drivers for all 20 year old soundcards.
Where does it say that it's not allowed to create a Windows driver for a 20 year old soundcard?
This is the reality of the computer industry, you don't have to like it, but you have to expect it and work within the reality of the industry.
If OP had complained about how their 10 or 5 year old devices didn't work, then they might have had a point, but 20 years old? That is unresonable.
Yes, the reality of the computer industry is that the industry changes. That has quite the dual meaning. I want it to mean it changes for the better...ahem....Open Source
If people want to use a working twenty year old device, it is completely reasonable to complain that Windows doesn't allow that - because that is where Linux STANDS ON ITS OWN MERITS
And still, it is usually possible to get the 20 y/o hardware to run in windows. It might need a bit of trickery but in essence, windows has changed so little under the hood, in the last 20 years…
Recently I acquired a 20 year old film scanner. I had the choice of either buying a new third party scanner software for 100€ or just get the old one working. I found some script that made the old driver identify as something newer and it installed without a problem and has been working since. (Or rather it has worked until recently, when I switched to linux anyways because I want to use the pc for gaming exclusively, since for work related stuff, I have a Mac)
I consider it more like OP was lucky that the devices worked on Linux, and then reality hit when he got on Windows.
I also consider it lucky but that's not the point. The point is that he has the right to complain about Windows. The point is also that he has the option to ask the Linux community to build a driver to make it work if it didn't work. The point is Microsoft does not give two shits about what OP wants because it has an extremely large share of the market. It no longer has to do good by its customer because it is no longer neccessary.
The point is... he can complain because he tried doing it with Windows and it didn't work. Your mileage may vary.
"Just buy new stuff" is the mindset of the perpetually boring and uncreative. Break shit and build better stuff.
Happy to see lemmy linux community not blindly hating windows and providing facts. Also you can use a package manager like choco to install apps from terminal so you dont have deal with clicking next.
Treating Windows unfairly in these kinds of comparisons is a disservice to Linux as it implies that Linux can't win in a fair comparison.
Windows/Linux/MacOS are all best at different things and for different persons, let the best OS for the task and person win on a fair test
If one values their software freedom then a fair test is not only how well it performs a task because having unjust power over your computing negates it as an option. If one don't value their software freedom then it's more imperative to talk about what's in their own best interests.
Linux (kernel) fails that test too as it includes proprietary binary blobs.
If one has the luxury of being able to manage with only free software, then I yeah, they should so their damndest to make sure to use free software.
Most people don't have that luxury (myself included) and for them Windows is fine.
However, if I need a server or need to test something, I will allways spin up a Linux machine first.
Why not?
Why not? Linux development is mostly volunteer, and these things are easily compatible with Linux. It seems like you can absolutely expect support for every device, it's just that Microsoft isn't willing to provide it.
Notice that you had to exaggerate a 20 year timespan into a 500 year timespan to make this analogy work?
Because it is a paid OS and it's developers are writing code for financial gain, if they are not being paid to write the code, it doesn't get written.
Voulenteers write the code because they want or need to, if there are no drivers for a device in on Linux, you need to write it yourself.
Yes, that was deliberate. Have you ever noticed how much faster technology develops compared to languages? That is why the analogy works.
The analogy doesn't even work if we ignore the massive difference in time scale. Languages develop organically, they are not managed. Comparing a managed and developed system and a twenty year timespan to an organic language system over a five hundred year timespan is just ridiculous.
They are being paid to write the code. Microsoft is just choosing which code they should write, and it doesn't include any old devices because they want you to buy new devices.
It's perfectly reasonable to expect compatibility, and lay blame when there isn't any. Microsoft simply doesn't provide it.
I disagree with you, but don't have the energy to keep arguing, this argument has been going on for days, and I made my point back on day one.
No shit. But that only explains why Windows is bad. It doesn't mean that Windows isn't bad. We shouldn't give Windows pity points just because poor Billy Gates is addicted to money.
Ridicolous. You act like this is the first person to realise Windows is jank. How many USB steering wheels have you bought during your lifetime?
None, I was gifted a Sidewinder Forcefeedback steering wheel by my dad when I was 8-9 something, but it used the old gameport.
I don't see how this is relevant though....
You should expect the creator to abandon the device eventually but indefinite hardware support is possible - that's why it's important that drivers be open source. If enough people care to use the device then a community can be created around it to support it on whatever OS they want.
Windows is still fucking ass though and it's so bad that I can not respect the opinion of someone that claims they are an IT professional and don't main Linux. Like what? And what does that even mean, that's ridiculously broad, what do you do? I'm a network engineer and sysadmin.
Linux is objectively superior to Windows in almost every way. It has vastly superior workflows. It's more customizable. It's insanely more efficient. It's more secure. I feel like I'm wading through 3ft of shit anytime I boot into Windows. Not to mention the ability to actually have ownership of your computer. And that's just talking about the ways Linux is better. That's not getting into why Windows is ass like... telemetry data and ads in the OS and configs reverting from updates and the dumbass way software is installed on it and how shit docker runs in it and I can go on and on. The workflows of Windows are actual dog ass and literally every single popular Linux DE has better workflows and customization.
If you in IT and use Windows for anything other than a gaming machine or something like Photoshop, then I don't want you anywhere near my tech.
lol.
I'm going to have to place you under arrest, you just fucking murdered that guy. Down to the slammer with you.
That guy had allready made up his mind about me and wasn't interested in anything but self validation. With his ridiculous criteria for people being IT technicians needing to run Linux on their main machine combined with his insulting attitude there was just no reason to discuss anything with him.
"Don't argue with idiots, they just drag you down to their level and beat you to death with experience"
That would be Middle English. This is Old English.
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