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this post was submitted on 04 Jul 2023
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in other news my ultra conservative parents installed solar panels on their house, and for over a month now, they've been generating more electricity than they can use, feeding back into the system their surplus. when real world results are such, we can start using these incidents as examples of why it's not only the morally correct thing to do (combat climate change and save our species), but also the economically savvy thing to do.
who knows what will be the final straw that breaks their stubbornness.
Shit my ultra conservative parents literally left Arizona because it just kept getting hotter every season. Yet they continue to deny climate change is manmade and a real threat to the global ecology.
Gotta love the pentecostals "it's all just the end times!" Oh yeah, like it was when Paul wrote his letters, and like it was in the 1840's when the millerites did their "math," and like in the other dozen predictions since then that have all not come to pass.
I don't know how many thousands of years can be the "last days" but something tells me it's just whenever an individual who believes in it is currently living.
You mean they had a financial incentive to partake?
Your example just shows how economics incentives are designed to work, but that money does come from somewhere.
I'd love to get solar but it's not economically viable to encur 20k expenses that will need over twenty years to pay off when that money can be used elsewhere
If someone gave me a Tesla I'd love it but I really don't have the cash to get a car right now and even if I did the price of teslas and most electrics are so high it's just not an option.
People think he solution here is to remove cheaper options but that won't work it will just keep people holding on to beaters far longer.
If the economics make sense to change people will change but trying to shake people or force people to make economically disadvantage choices will never work long term
My wife got a used Prius for 13K or 17k a couple years ago, it'll be more expensive now I believe, but the thing is most people don't have 13k or 17k to spend on a car. If people can't scrape together 500 dollars from their savings in an emergency, they aren't going to be able to get a hybrid or electric car for a very long time, and all legislation that tries to push people in that direction benefits the rich, and penalizes the poor when they remove options the poor can afford.
Just a heads up, most home solar installations are designed to pay for themselves in 7 to 9 years. But it does depend on net metering in your area, and whether you install a battery pack.
Figured I'd ask here since this thread seems to be getting informative. The number of door to door sales people for solar that come by my area really make solar feel like a scam. How should one go about finding a proper deal on getting solar without having to work with sleazy sales practices?
Why I say it feels scammy: the area I'm in has a lot of older middle class (not upper middle class or anything) residents. From talking to some solar reps, this is their target. There are much wealthier neighborhoods a town or so over but the salespeople I've spoken to say the business would rather sell financed installations to collect incentives and that it's easy to convince people they'll save money in the long run. But in this community, we're generally fine financially as long as nothing big hits. When they gave me the numbers, it fell into the category of a big upfront payment due to down payments and high annual costs that would only slightly be offset by electricity savings. I don't recall the term, but it was not something we could budget for. The paperwork is all showing the future savings and the savings on electricity, until you look into the details. There are two houses that I've seem go for it nearby.
A lot of those door-to-door guys are indeed scams. Or if not outright scams, just incompetent.
It's hard to find good installers that aren't completely booked for a year or more.
Depending on your needs and skill level, a decent-sized solar setup isn't hard to DIY. You don't necessarily need to start with a huge system, you can set up a smaller system to run an AC system or some load like that. Then if you want scale up as you learn more.
Also, solar doesn't have to be photovoltaic, solar thermal is great for hot water.
Interesting, this sounds like enough to start a Google quest to learn more and maybe experiment. Thanks!
Check out DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse on YouTube for lots of great info! He also has a web shop with many of the products he thinks are good quality.
If they live in the Midwest you could even point to the drop in solar production from the smoke as an immediate negative economic effect
For me it was a 20 year ROI and I would have had to ask my neighbors to take trees down. I don't think I'll be here for that long. And when the average joe is getting poorer and poorer it's harder to afford. This is the problem.
Definitely dont chop down the trees. Also I heard there's payment plans for solar panels
Hey don’t worry though, that average joe’s poorness has nothing to do with all the money printed in the last few years.
That's only one relatively minor factor among many. Anyone who points to it without also mentioning the much more significant impacts of things like global supply chain disruptions and the war in Ukraine is either ignorant, or is trying to spin a particular narrative while being intellectually dishonest about their priors.
What priors? Prior criminal offenses? I don't know what you're saying I'm being intellectually dishonest about?
Yeah the supply chain disruptions have been horrible too. The war in Ukraine is a predictable effect of economic collapse so it's kind of part of that same mix, but it also accelerates the decline in economic stability.
Both arms of the lockdown fucked up poor people: the actual stopping of the economy as if it were a machine that could just be re-started again was ridiculously stupid, and the solution of printing money to make up for the stopped economy was double stupid. As a result, poor people are much poorer due to inflation. They claim it's some single digit inflation, but everybody knows the things they buy have doubled in price.
So we basically cut everyone's income in half. Oh, except for people who own large amounts of productive capital. Those people's incomes get to come back up as total activity increases again. Plus, the newly printed money was dumped into stocks, so stockholders got a little offset.
But people who don't have a lot of wealth, who are living paycheck to paycheck, got fucked by the lockdowns. Deeply, horribly fucked.
And maybe that pain is transmitted pain from covid, maybe we avoided a bunch of covid deaths so the overall suffering is lower than it would have been. But I think people underestimate the suffering that can come from all the lower class people on Earth getting poorer than they were before.
And I think that people's insistence that it's the rich who primarily get hurt when the economy falters, is abhorrent.
You don't have to argue with your parents. It seems like the advancement of technology is naturally taking care of the issue.
Words of wisdom. The most efficient solution will speak for itself. People don't like wasting time, effort, or money.
Liberals talk shit while “ultra conservatives” quietly solve the problem using their own resources? What world is this?
Being wealthy enough to invest in a long-term savings is the only real factor in this decision lol
Sounds like a good reason to have some money to me.