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this post was submitted on 18 Feb 2024
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What's a realistic way to get out of a 2-party system?
Keep in mind that any change will require that the party in power enacts it, and they're one of the two parties in the two party system. Also, keep in mind that US elections are "first past the post", so voting for a third party weakens the candidate you otherwise would have considered.
2-party system in reality seems even worse than 1-party. At least single party can't point at each other and say "blame them".
One of the key benefits of a democracy is that they are seen as relatively stable. In the systems that were common before (monarchies, theocracies, oligarchies, dictatorships, etc.) there were frequently rebellions or coups. One reason for that is that in a democracy, people feel like they have an option to change the system instead of just violence: voting. But, that's a feeling that they can change the system. It isn't necessarily true.
In a 2 party system where both parties claim to represent different views, people think that voting for the other party will result in the change they want. But, often it doesn't, because that isn't the change that the rich people and corporations want, and their money allows them to keep certain things off limits for both parties.
In a 1 party system, people might realize that if the party doesn't want to make a change, the only way to have the change happen is a coup or a revolution. But, 2 parties and the illusion of choice keeps people voting instead of rioting or rebelling, so the system stays around longer.
Sounds like oligopolic autocracy
A good first step would be to pass HR 1 For The People Act and then from there elect members of the party of progressive reform. Even just Independents who caucus alongside the party of reform.
A realistic way to never get out is to elect conservatives who by definition do not want reform, at least 34 or enough to stop any supermajority votes so they can filibuster nonstop for days, but for good measure enough for them to elect a majority leader who never calls things to vote such as Mitch "The Legislature Reaper" McConnell who let countless bills die on the senate floor having never been called to vote.
So, the best way to get third parties is by voting for one of the two main parties?
As long as one of them is committed to electoral reform. But no, if not, you're trying to vote for the least destructive person. Biden is the least destructive person. Best not let Trump have America just because you can't get electoral reform this election cycle.
They'd have to be more committed to electoral reform than to their survival as a party. I don't know of any cases where that has actually happened.
Women's suffrage. Men voted to reduce their own power by giving women the right to vote.
Ok, that was a group that gave up power, but it wasn't a political party that gave up power. IMO it's going to be much harder to get a political party to give up power.
Or Independents who caucus with one of the two main parties to pass majority and supermajority reform, yes. However, in tough races then splitting the votes between progressive candidates is counterproductive.
How will women ever get the right to vote without the right to vote? If that can be achieved, I think there are ways to ditch FPTP.
Universal suffrage was inevitable. It was only a matter of time until indigenous people, black people, and women, were considered people.
Plus there’s a lot more “what’s in it for me” for politicians with those groups. You’re unlocking a whole new demographic of people who may want to vote for you, and certainly won’t want to vote for someone who is against their suffrage.
Change the voting system. Preferential or many others, pretty much everything beats first past the post
The trouble is that the people who could enact laws to change the voting system belong to parties that would suffer if the voting system were changed.
Changing the voting system seems like a vital part of a solution.
Term limits may be anorher.
But the flood of money and influemce delivered by Citizens United has overwhelmed most checks and balances.
Despite how you may feel about Andrew Yang and his presidential bid, one of the ideas in his platform was meant to counteract some of it.
He called it Democracy Dollars and it was $300/yr of earmarked money, sepearte from his UBI money, that was provided to every voting citizen to spend on political donations - candidates, committies, etc. at local, state, or federal levels.
This would amount to over $1T of non corporate lobbying to help balance out the foriegn and/or corporare PAC sponsorships.
Term limits only work if the limits were applied to big money donors. Otherwise, they just end up putting money even more in control.
The trouble is that the people who could enact laws to change the voting system belong to parties that would suffer if the voting system were changed.
States where Referendums are a thing might be a good path forward.
Now is the best time to make more parties. When one is really weak. The Republicans are ready to fracture. There just needs to be many to replace them. Same with the Dems. Once we have like 6 choices, then it will finally become like most Europeans and for the people. Because there is no other alternative but to be accountable and keep the job.
In many ways, now is the worst time to make other parties because elections are so close. If you elect a 3rd party senator or congressperson, you might tip the balance so your least favourite big party takes control.
But, say you think it is a great time to do it. What's your realistic way to make it happen? The two big parties have control and they don't want other parties.
I'm not saying for this election. I mean it's a good time after this election. It takes time to build up steam for these things.
I also don't care. I just look at how Europe has better options and how they run their elections. I would like to copy it. Because they also have the highest satisfaction as a citizen.
Europe has always had multiple parties. It's possible to go from having multiple parties to functionally having only 2 parties. I don't know of any case where it has gone the other way.
Look, for example, at how many parties were in the running for Germany's first election after WWII:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1949_West_German_federal_election
The biggest party got just 30% of the vote. The 7th biggest party was still big enough to get 3% of the vote.
Or look at the history of French elections:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legislative_elections_in_France
Even in the 1700s, there were never fewer than 3 strong parties. Since the 1870s, it's more typical to have at least 6 parties splitting the vote.
You can't just magic that up, it has to start like that. Once it gets down to 2 parties (or one party) those two parties make it so that any vote for a 3rd party is effectively a thrown-away vote.
Ranked choice voting.
Ok, so to get ranked choice voting, you're going to...?
Vote for a member of a political party that claims they'll implement it? In reality, they won't, because ranked choice voting hurts the two main parties and helps small parties.
Violence, coup d'etat, revolution, and civil war. This is the history of the change in human civilization.