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submitted 10 months ago by FragmentedChicken to c/android
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[-] AdmiralShat@programming.dev 34 points 10 months ago

How do these eSIMs work from a user's perspective? I've only ever had phones with physical sim slots

[-] 9point6@lemmy.world 20 points 10 months ago

Effectively, imagine there's a SIM card soldered to the motherboard of the phone, you can then download an eSIM to it and the phone behaves as if it's a physical SIM.

In reality it's generally built into the modem and I believe they can typically hold multiple eSIMs. What I'm not clear on is if inactive eSIMs actually live in the hardware eSIM or if they get swapped in by the OS

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[-] Horsey@kbin.social 15 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

on T-Mobile USA: I preordered my iPhone 15; the QR eSIM and automated SIM transfer system was completely down and I had to spend 30 minutes to an hour on the phone with customer service to swap over my physical SIM to an eSIM I could type (IIRC) into my new phone.

[-] AdmiralShat@programming.dev 2 points 10 months ago

How frustrating

[-] smeg@feddit.uk 8 points 10 months ago

Yeah same, I want to know how you move phones if one breaks, or any number of similar situations where you can't run an app or access another device

[-] Auli@lemmy.ca 5 points 10 months ago

Its a shitty replacement. If I couldnswap phones like a sim card i wouldn't care. But they charge for a phone swap no thanks.

[-] AdmiralShat@programming.dev 5 points 10 months ago

That's my big concern as well.

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[-] SheeEttin@programming.dev 2 points 10 months ago

You call support and have them issue a new one.

[-] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 2 points 10 months ago

Don't you need a SIM for calling?

[-] SheeEttin@programming.dev 1 points 9 months ago

I'm not sure if there's some special calling feature to reach a previously associated provider, but when I've been in that situation I just borrowed my roommate's phone.

[-] Pika@sh.itjust.works 2 points 10 months ago

yea, that's my biggest annoyance with it, if you can't pass security on the phone (talking to you prepaid carriers who have absolutely shit CS and protocols) you can no longer just hot swap the sim to get your verification code. You are just locked out of your account now. It's nice that it's more secure but, also such a pain in the ass for people who don't call their carrier a lot so they don't know their security.

[-] smeg@feddit.uk 1 points 10 months ago

As in ring the network (presumably on a third, working phone) and wait for them to post you something? Doesn't sound like a great user experience!

[-] SheeEttin@programming.dev 2 points 10 months ago

No, they issue it virtually. Then you download it via their app or via regular cell network provisioning.

[-] JustSomePerson@kbin.social 2 points 10 months ago

download it via their app

On the phone that isn't connecting to the internet, because it doen't have a SIM yet? Or do eSIM phones use free internet before they have an eSIM issued?

[-] SheeEttin@programming.dev 2 points 10 months ago

In the store if you're getting the phone from a store, or somewhere with wifi (home, a friend's, a cafe) if you've gotten it some other way.

If you don't have any of those, you probably live way out in the jungle, and I'd be surprised if you had service even if you got the eSIM. But in the edge case that you somehow got home delivery postal service in the jungle, you'd probably be able to survive just fine without it until your next trip into town.

In the extreme edge case that you are in the jungle, get service, and your need is critical, I would have an activated backup phone tested periodically and ready to go.

[-] Peepolo@lemmy.world 7 points 10 months ago

Exactly the same as a normal one. It just works and you don't really need to do anything with it. Everything seems the same just no little card in the side of your device.

[-] MicrowavedTea@infosec.pub 10 points 10 months ago

Until this article I thought you could swap eSIMs between phones, exactly like normal ones

[-] 9point6@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago

Tbh I think you effectively could, but it would technically be your provider issuing a new one.

For me I just log into my provider's online account screen and I'm able to scan a new QR code

[-] MicrowavedTea@infosec.pub 4 points 10 months ago

Eh that's not really the same. And reading this thread it seems many providers (including mine) don't support online QR codes.

[-] 9point6@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago

That's unfortunate, at least in the UK all the (eSIM supporting) providers seem to offer the same capability.

As I've said elsewhere a physical SIM is slightly better in the situation where you smash your phone and buy a new one as you don't need to connect your new phone to the phone shop's WiFi for 5 mins (scanning the QR code is the quick way, you can just type an alphanumeric code in too, some carriers let you download it via an app). On the flip side though, if your phone is stolen, I still just need the WiFi for 5 mins. With a physical SIM, it would be sent to my home address and arrive a couple of days later.

[-] Auli@lemmy.ca 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Yah and mine charges for a phone transfer. No thanks I'll keep physical sim as long as in can.

[-] 9point6@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Well frankly, that's pretty shitty of your carrier, IMO. I didn't realise anyone was actually out there charging for what's basically essential functionality.

There's basically nothing technically different about transfering a physical SIM or an eSIM from the network's perspective. The same registration takes place, they have to send all the same carrier service configuration messages.

I don't blame you at all for holding onto a physical SIM in that scenario, but I'd be looking to move to a less customer-hostile carrier once my contract was up.

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[-] Zorque@kbin.social 5 points 10 months ago

What if I need to change the SIM?

[-] vodka@lemm.ee 5 points 10 months ago

You get a QR code for the new sim, go into the eSIM manager on the phone, and scan it

[-] JustSomePerson@kbin.social 6 points 10 months ago

I don't want a "new sim", I want my old one, which doesn't exist anymore since it was virtual and only existed in my now broken previous phone. How does it work in that situation?

[-] fuckwit_mcbumcrumble@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago

Call your carrier or go into a store and they move it over. If your phone is broken you’ll kinda be SOL since there’s no way to authenticate the move.

[-] JustSomePerson@kbin.social 8 points 10 months ago

Exactly. What a shitty anti-feature. Your answer proves that the people saying that "eSIMs are functionally the same as normal SIM" are full of absolute shit.

[-] Guest_User@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago

Genuinely asking, what do you gain by transferring the physical Sim?

[-] MicrowavedTea@infosec.pub 2 points 10 months ago

Not the person you asked but I have a couple of sims by different providers that I swap between phones/sim routers when I need to make calls or use data from that carrier. Popping the sim into an old device and configuring whatever I need is super convenient.

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[-] JustSomePerson@kbin.social 2 points 10 months ago

Keeping my number. Are you saying that I can immediately, online, get my existing number connected to a different handset? If I can't, then that's why I want to transfer the physical SIM.

[-] fuckwit_mcbumcrumble@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago

Are you saying that I can immediately, online, get my existing number connected to a different handset?

Yes.

[-] vodka@lemm.ee 3 points 10 months ago

Now I can't answer for other regions, but with my carrier here in Norway I can sign in to their website and authenticate with the government ID system (bankid) and generate a new esim and get the QR code. Takes about a minute total.

I'm personally more for physical sim cards as swapping it into a new phone or swapping in a traveler datasim etc is just something I prefer to have physically.

That being said, I use esim for my phone number, and then swap in travel sims for data with my physical sim slot, works really well when you travel a lot.

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[-] 9point6@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago

Are you saying that I can immediately, online, get my existing number connected to a different handset?

Yes, that's exactly how it works

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[-] Alonely0@mastodon.social 5 points 10 months ago

@AdmiralShat @FragmentedChicken phones that support esims have actual sim chips inside, and esims basically flash the carrier data onto that chip.

[-] mp3@lemmy.ca 3 points 10 months ago

They're functionally the same as normal SIM, instead it is stored in a secure location of the storage (which can survive factory reset). In a way, it makes it a bit more secure as a thief can't just yank out the SIM card to avoid being tracked (although it doesn't defeat a faraday bag) or take it out to use it in another phone.

[-] JustSomePerson@kbin.social 7 points 10 months ago

The major function of a normal SIM is the ability to take it out of one device and put it into another one, effectively disconnecting my identity towards the network provider, from the handset. With eSIM, that doesn't exist, and if my phone breaks, it's unclear what happens.

To me, that's not secure, that's unsafe and insecure.

[-] mp3@lemmy.ca 6 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

From a corporate device perspective it's an interesting evolution though, since we can remotely provision an eSIM through our mobile device management platform. No SIM to handle from the user point of view, and they can't take it out.

[-] 9point6@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago

that doesn't exist

Well fwiw, the post we're commenting on is about that now existing.

the ability to take it out of one device and put it into another one, effectively disconnecting my identity towards the network provider, from the handset

Unless you think that taking a SIM out of a phone means that the phone is no longer connected to you, which isn't the case at all. A phone's IMEI is sent along with the SIM data as part of the initial handshake to make a mobile connection, your carrier knows the make, model and serial number of every phone you've ever put your SIM card in. The police in most countries make them keep track of which cell towers that combo of IMEI and SIM connect to and at what times. There's no privacy in using a mobile network you pay a bill for.

that's not secure

Obviously this isn't the be all and end all of security, but an eSIM slightly improves device security because a thief would be unable to remove it and disable any theft tracking measures which require network access. (Yes I know about EM shielded bags, but most thieves are opportunists)

The only real advantage of a physical SIM is that if you smash your phone up, you can walk into a shop and put it into a new phone without needing an internet connection first. If I smash my phone up, I need a WiFi network to hook my new phone up to the network. On the flip side, if I get robbed abroad, the process is the same. With a physical SIM it's gonna get sent to my home address.

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[-] pimento64@sopuli.xyz 3 points 10 months ago

The same way Verizon phones used to work: less well.

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[-] bdonvr@thelemmy.club 2 points 10 months ago

Generally you go to some site your carrier has, enter the IMEI or some number from your phone's settings, then scan a QR code. It's not bad... depending on your carrier.

[-] Auli@lemmy.ca 4 points 10 months ago

And pay a fee.

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this post was submitted on 26 Jan 2024
395 points (99.5% liked)

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