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‘Pure greed:’ Etiquette expert explains why tipping has gotten out of control
(www.clickorlando.com)
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this post was submitted on 12 Nov 2023
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Tipping needs to end. It's the employer's responsibility to make sure their employees are paid reasonably. Instead they pass that responsibility to the customer, ensuring tension between customers and staff.
It's almost like the profit motive is corrosive and requires stringent safeguards else it'll corrupt and destroy everything... for profit!
I used to be a consistent tipper.
Now I refused to tip at all.
I want workers to demand what they are worth to their employers, and I'm willing to be the asshole to help them accomplish that.
If we all stopped tipping, they'd have no choice but to turn the low wage issue around onto their employers. Then employers will have no choice but the pay their workers more, because otherwise they'd leave their industry for something else.
I don't care if that means we, as consumers, have to pay a bit more for the food and service. I don't care if that means that some businesses won't survive. I want fairness all around
I refuse to tip anywhere new and expand this practice... But with things like restaurants or delivery? Without organization, all that does is further underpay people for their work and increase the chances of spitting in your food
I don't think there's a good answer, so I just do it much less
As far as delivery, if I'm charged a delivery fee "because reasons", that's the extra money that is my tip. If they're asking for a tip as well, then no.
But instead of just not tipping, I just don't get delivery, which I haven't since the pandemic. Two or three experiences where I was trying to order and all the add on fees plus tips meant that dinner for one was going to cost over $45 and dinner for two, over $60 (when the entrees themselves were like $12-15) and basically that was enough to convince me not to do it.
At one place there was a delivery fee, a delivery service fee, a "take out packaging" fee, a service fee, a charge for ordering less than $25, a driver fee (which they were quick to tell me was not a tip)...and of course still asked for a tip, with the options being 20, 22, and 25%. Even choosing the lowest tip, my single meal was going to cost $46 for food that I could walk in, sit down, order, eat, tip, and leave...all for under $25.
Basically I just don't get delivery now, and while I know that won't break the system, maybe if enough people join me it will.
I used to think that way as well. But really, if spit in my food is being used as a threat to tip someone isn't that extortion?
I'm polite, easy to serve, and even if the food is over-cooked and way too salty (as it was for the single taco I ordered last time I was out) I don't ask for it to be returned. I'm a model customer, except I won't tip.
I'm not doing it to be cheap, or out of spite, or in disrespect for the service personnel. I'm doing it to apply pressure so that things will change for the better
Think of it as passive guerilla tactics against a broken system
But what about the inherent coercion of capitalism? The fear of having your food spit in is a kind of coercion, but despite the system being broken, people who rely on tips need that money to survive
It's a messy issue. If everyone refused to tip as a matter of course and they were paid a living wage I think things would be improved, but on a more immediate and direct level you're reducing their pay
It's a systematic problem... Maybe it can be handled individually, but that will create a lot of issues until the pressure of individuals can prompt systematic change
I would rather they felt the pressure to move on to different employment (if they can find it) than deal with the uncertainty and fickle nature of tippers
Where I live some restaurants have started requesting no tips because they pay their workers what they're worth. If those are around when I go out, I go there. In their absence I don't tip
Other countries of the world have it figured out, why can't the U.S? We can be better. Sometimes you have to take a hard stand that feels counter-intuitive to the causes you believe in, in order to push things in the right direction. Do I feel bad about not tipping? Certainly. But I want change for the better and that requires applying pressure to the right places
I'm not ideologically opposed to what you're saying - I agree with the end goal, I'm just worried about methods. I'm even fine with tipped employees suffering for a bit during transition
But changing jobs is purposely difficult...I don't think that's a fair demand through effectively reducing their wages
On the other hand, you brought up something great - if you have places around that have transitioned to a living wage, why not push to go there instead? Restaurants can make this change in a couple weeks if properly motivated, but it would take months of employees struggling until they leave to affect that level of change, and I'd argue a restaurant is more likely to look around and adopt a better business model when their customers dry up than to realize the reason they can't keep staff is due to tipping expectations
I'm all for your strategy to pressure the holdouts once the tides have turned in an area, and maybe your area is at that stage... But I don't think most of the country is nearly there yet
For sure. It's just that the last time I was out I wasn't able to do that. (An old employer had asked me to help out for the day on short notice, and I was on foot because driving/parking in the area is an expensive nightmare and there wasn't enough time to take a bus)
Frankly I'd rather make food at home. I'm a decent cook and don't have to be concerned with morality at all :)
Haha. Rosy. Rosy pink.
Mr. Pink.
Cute :)
You remind me of Taco Bell, you smell good but you’re going to destroy my asshole later ;-)
Been in Japan this summer. A culture where tipping is non-existent. It was such a great experience to not worry about tipping. Instead you simply get outstanding service all the time and workers are simply paid a fair wage.
There's nothing wrong with tipping. I like the option to reward someone who made my experience great. Keyword there is option. Employers should pay employees a living wage, and if customers want to reward a great job with a few bucks on top of that, that should be allowed, even encouraged, but should never feel obligated to tip or shamed for not tipping.
You should feel ashamed for making someone act as your slave for minimum wage. The least you could do is pay them what they're worth.
If you don't like it, don't force tipped workers to work for you. You have full control here. You could just cook your own damn food.
I said living wage, homie, not minimum wage. I think everyone should be paid at least a living wage, I just said tipping in general isn't bad - it just shouldn't be used to supplement poor wages.
Okay, but they don't have a living wage, so you don't get to have that option. Either tip or stop using those services.
What fucking conversation do you think you're a part of? Because you're clearly not reading my comments before responding to them.
You said customers should never feel obligated or ashamed. Never. I definitely feel ashamed of using these services and feel obligated to tip generously, and you should too.
So we're in agreement then? Why are you lighting me up when we're clearly on the same side? You need to learn to recognize an ally and save the anger for someone who deserves it, or you'll find yourself without any allies.
I don't know if we are, actually.
Do you still use these services? And if you do, do you tip?
Yes, I go to restaurants every so often, and I always tip and tip well. I refuse to punish the workers for the broken system. That doesn't degrade my argument that they should be paid a living wage instead of having to rely on tips at all.
When I say customers should not feel ashamed or obligated to tip, I mean that the system should change in such a way that tips are not expected and workers are paid a living wage. The system is not currently like that, we get that. Snapping back at me over the way the system IS when we both agree on how it should be is being intentionally argumentative for no reason.
Then we are in agreement. I read your comment as unconditional i.e. customers should never be pressured to tip, regardless of the wages of the worker.
You're either intentionally being obtuse or are just plain stupid. Customers SHOULDNT be in a position of being forced to tip or be ashamed for normal acitivitues. Absolutely required tipping should not be a thing. It should be optional. It doesn't matter what the current culture is, because that's not the conversation. That's the point.
But they are in a position of being ashamed because those workers need tips. Shoulda woulda coulda, I don't like it when people decide to not tip as some kind of political protest against tipping.
Reading comprehension was never your strong suit huh? Either that or you failed in debate class. You have the worst debate tactics I've seen in a long time.
I'm just a stupid piece of shit and should kill myself. Tell me more about how I'm a failure and I don't know how to read. Unf I'm almost there~
Chill, please, you definitely shouldn't kill yourself. Ain't big deal if someone in the internet is wrong
Dogpiling doesn't feel good. Being told I can't read, can't debate, and am a failure doesn't feel good. I got angry.
You said it, not me
Please learn how to have an actual conversation without the pity party
You definitely said I can't read and can't debate and am a failure. Bully shit.
Me? When did I specifically say that? Me specifically? Maybe check who you're replying to :)
Whatever, replace "you" with "that poster".
The point stands. Bully shit. Mocking me for it with a cheeky smiley doesn't help either.
You're really not helping your case, here. Take the L bruh
Let's never talk about changing anything because it's not the current climate then, yeah? There's no point in discussing change at all, clearly, since it doesn't apply to specifically exactly what's currently going on. Truly you are a paragon of our time
Refusing to tip will not change anything.
lol no.
Pretty sure you're not responding to the employer
The customer creates the demand.