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Who's winning here, exactly?
(lemmy.ml)
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this post was submitted on 03 Nov 2023
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Privacy
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Ubuntu is a decent place to start.
Before anybody decides to jump down my throat over it, there are some very good reasons to not use Ubuntu generally. I know.
That said, I still recommend it as a first distro because it's
There are many other, better distros out there for specific needs. Manjaro is a great one for gaming in particular, but can be a little harder to get setup with, or to find help for when things go wrong. But I still think Ubuntu is the best "starter" distro I've encountered.
I'd just like to say that if something says Ubuntu support it will very likely work on all Debian based distros unless its something really low level and your running one that swapped out systemd or something. They normally just mean that they ship their software as a .deb file and even that can be installed on non Debian distros if your willing to do some special stuff. Also as for drivers/firmware I've never had any issues except when trying to use a distros that doesnt include non-free firmware.
Yup, agreed on all counts.
I just feel that if it's your first distro, it's probably better to stick to vanilla Ubuntu until you better understand the subtle differences between the various Debians.
Still and all though, it's easier to install a Linux than it's ever been. My first Linux was actually an OpenSUSE, soon replaced by Debian Etch. I bought the latter online and they mailed me the installation CDs! It took me days to get the installs working.
Now, you just pop in a USB and follow the friendly install wizard. It's friggin awesome.
Yeah, with the small caveat that you first have to somehow make that USB stick. For non-techies that is still anything but easy-peasy, and most distros seem to weirdly assume that you already have the thing in your hand, as you just seemed to do. The reality is that it's now easily the biggest single hurdle to installing Linux, the rest is easy as you say.
Fair point!
Making a Bootable USB stick: I like using balena etcher to make bootable USBs. It handles downloading, burning and making a bootable image for you. It's great!
Just point it at an empty USB stick (or one you're ok with Balena erasing everything on) and select the Linux distro (or downloaded ISO) you want to use. Come back later and you're all set to reboot into Linux from the USB stick!
Booting From USB: You may need to manually select the USB stick as your boot device when you restart! If so, usually you just need to hold F8 during the reboot process to get the menu.
If that doesn't do it, you'll need to get into your computer's BIOS to enable booting from the USB. That usually requires holding down either F1, F12, or Delete, depending on your particular BIOS. I usually just hold them all down.
In the BIOS you're looking for something like "Boot" or "Boot Order", "Disk Devices" etc. It may be hidden inside an "Advanced Options" or "Security" section.
Once you've found it, make sure your USB drive is A) enabled for booting from B) in the boot list before your other drives
After that, Save and Exit your BIOS (methods vary, but it's usually written on the screen someplace).
Yes that's all great, but really you're just proving my point here. How do you get a non-techie past this whole obstacle? Tell them to ask instructions on an obscure forum, whereupon they'll get a wall of text like this, full of obscure geeky jargon? (That is roughly how Debian does it, by the way.) Obviously you know exactly what you're talking about but I'm a bit concerned that you - and most other Linux users - are slightly out of touch about just how obscure and forbidding all this is to a non-technical person. The problem is that we need at least some of those people to succeed if Linux is to thrive.
I don't disagree that it would be great if it were easier for non-techy people to try Linux. But we're speaking in the context of an OP who said that they're not afraid of using the console, which indicates a certain level of technical skill to start from. They've asked for directions and I'm trying to provide them.
Beside that, I think there's a limit to how simple I - or anyone - can make the process of installing a new OS. That isn't a "Linux" thing - there isn't any simpler option if you want to install Windows from scratch either.
If you want to get Linux in the layman's hands as easily as most people get Windows, buy them machines from System76. Sorted.
In the meantime, what would you suggest, vs my "wall of text [...] of geeky jargon"?
Agreed that the best one-stop answer is to tell people to buy their next computer from a Linux specialist (and be able to name 3 of them).
And yes, there's a limit to how easy the DIY solution is going to be. But I think that the bar is now pretty low if we make it as easy as possible. As you suggest, installer software is now pretty much "just hit Enter" until it works. The weak link is now the boot medium. I'm pretty experienced and yet whenever I have installed Ubuntu from Windows I've had to struggle with Powershell (or whatever it's called) and go googling for
ddcommand parameters. The alternative is third-party software, as you say, which has its own security risks and learning curve.This s a crazy situation. The OS should bundle all software you need to get it running and it should hand-hold the user every step of the way. Big button "Get started", step 1, step 2, step 3, done. It doesn't have to be walls of text full of jargon and useless technical asides (as Debian does it, and even Ubuntu to some extent). And the user doesn't need to understand what exactly is happening, they just need to get up and running. When I was beginning with Linux I had no idea what I was doing but I persisted. So many others are not going to persist in the face of this unnecessary complexity. It really irritates me that FOSS shoots itself in the foot like this.
Rant over. Last time I checked, the specific answer to your question was: Fedora. Big buttons, 1, 2, 3, and the boot-creation binary is right there as part of the process. Probably some further refinements are possible, but Fedora seems not bad.
I've been in IT since before Linux exited, and installed my first Linux box the other day.
You're spot on. It's a frustrating nuisance to me (especially as writing tech docs has been part of my job), but for a non-technical person it's a no-go.
I don't know what the answer is. CDs like AOL used to do?
It's a better walk-thru USB-stick-creation process. See my response to sibling comment. I really think this is a solvable problem but a lot of Linux users are in denial about just how geeky and perseverant ordinary people can be expected to be.
Yes, even that USB creation walk through has been too much, for me, let alone a non-technical person (or even less motivated, which I have been for 20 years now) .
I didn't want to deal with certain Canonical shenanigans so my first distro was actually Debian Cinnamon. I was an absolute zero and it was still easy to use.
If you managed to make a Debian boot stick using just Debian's website and your Windows-user expertise, then you are not a zero. Take that as a compliment.
I don't remember if I was using Debian's site specifically, but there definitely are comprehensive guides.
Again, that is exactly my point. There are comprehensive guides is not the solution to getting normies to adopt FOSS.
Yeah, I'm on Manjaro and things occasionally go wrong and can be frustrating to fix.
Until you're comfortable with being in charge of a linux installation, don't go there.