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this post was submitted on 31 Oct 2023
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Hamas has never tried for peace.
Okay I'm not exactly a fan of Hamas but that's very, very wrong.
I'm pretty well informed in the area, but willing to learn. Can you please link to information about any time since it's inception that Hamas has offered peaceful relations with Israel?
Israel has made peace with Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, the Palestinian Liberation Organization, Qatar, UAE, etc, often in exchange for Israel giving up land.
Well not really peaceful relations, but there were two ceasefires, one in 2008 and another in 2012, that Hamas followed in good faith until it was clear that Israel had no intention of doing that (the 2012 one they kept for more than a year). Both included Israel completely lifting the blockade, which they didn't do no matter how long Hamas waited.
BTW Hamas is uh... Hamas, but they changed their charter in 2017 to only demand a return to 1967 borders.
The 2017 Hamas charter reads:
Which is nonetheless an improvement over the founding charter:
There's also this in the same document:
I know that. Do you think that this is evidence that
It is obviously not.
It only acknowledges that Hamas will not oppose such a plan if it is approved by the Palestinian people, along with the specific conditions listed. The document outlines that the long-term demand is irrevocably all of the land from The River To The Sea as a State of Palestine and no State of Israel whatsoever.
It's unambiguous.
But you already saw that because you have read the document. I'm no longer addressing these comments to you, but to the people who've actually read this far in the thread and are interested in learning, rather than propaganda.
So let's look at those specific conditions listed. According to the 2017 charter, who are the "refugees and the displaced?" You might reasonably think that refers to the 700,000 Palestinians who were displaced by the 1948 war. No, as the charter specifies, it is any of the 6.4 million people who can identify at least one Palestinian ancestor. That is over 60% of the current population of Israel. It includes third-generation Americans and Europeans. It includes most members of Hamas.
And what is Israel supposed to do with this 65% increase in population? Again, it's specified in the charter. Israel must "return their homes," meaning provide a physical house for every family at no cost. Additionally, Israel must pay unspecified reparations. There is no amount of reparations that would be acceptable in place of a physical house in Israel, nor any other tolerable location.
To reiterate, Hamas will temporarily recognize a Palestinian State within the 1967 borders
If and only if
Israel agrees to absorb 6.4 million people into a population of under 10 million (including members of Hamas), buy them each a house, pay them additional reparations, and give up any claim on Jerusalem or the 5 holiest sites in Judaism.
Again, this is not my opinion, it is all laid out in the charter itself.
The belief that Hamas is anything other than a terrorist organization intent on eliminating the only Jewish-majority state in the world, is just not borne out by any version of reality.
Meanwhile, Israel has peacefully turned over more land and resources than the entire current area of the State in exchange for peace with neighbors. Israel has offered Palestinian leaders nearly every inch of the land of Palestine, but every offer has been rejected by the Palestinian leaders. Don't be confused by Propaganda.
I mean yes. Those are the descendants of the people who were displaced by Israel, and they have a right to return to their homes.
That's misinformation. It's a pain to list all of them, so if anyone bothered to read this far and is curious about why any specific offer failed, just ask. Hint: The answer is usually that Israel, not Palestine, refused to compromise.
It's not tho