60
submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by Sitcom@monyet.cc to c/askchapo@hexbear.net

Both Ukraine and Palestine are fighting against an invading force. We can unanimously agree that Palestinians have have been illegally occupied in an open air prison/concentration camp for 75 years. And we seem to agree that Palestine cannot be a perfect victim and it is reasonable that they seek support in Hamas instead of their Israeli oppressors.

Now why can't the same logic be applied to Ukraine? There is absolutely a nazi problem in Ukraine. A nazi problem that needs to be wiped out. But Russia isnt trying to denazify Ukraine, they're trying to maintain borders and resist NATO. But while doing so they are indiscriminately killing civilians and are the aggressors.

Personally, I believe in what Norman Finkelstein has to say about Hezbollah and the red army. Both are not perfect, but I don't care about their politics. I care that they are a resisting force and believe a country should have the right to self determination.

So how are these situations diametrically opposed that you seem to be hostile towards Ukraine but supportive of Palestine?

I don't mean to come off as shaming or judgemental. I genuinely would like to hear your perspective.

Edit: I appreciate all of the thoughtful and patient responses. Even though I might not respond to everything here I am reading all of it. I was operating under a lack of information, which I've never seen any Western media source report on. Ever since leaving reddit, hexbear has been a great source of alternative perspectives and context. It's opened my eyes to a lot of how I've been misled by papers that I've trusted.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[-] KittyBobo@hexbear.net 52 points 1 year ago

Have you heard of Donbas? No shame if you haven't, you have to go out of your way to know much about it. Ukraine has been shelling civilians in Donbas since 2014. The people there and in Crimea are ethnically Russian, that's why they want to be independent from Ukraine and why Ukraine hates them for it.

[-] Sitcom@monyet.cc 45 points 1 year ago

Nope, I did not and will read about that further. Asking questions to learn :)

[-] MF_COOM@hexbear.net 54 points 1 year ago
[-] AOCapitulator@hexbear.net 14 points 1 year ago

the kind that won't be one for long

[-] Flyberius@hexbear.net 37 points 1 year ago

Further to this, the agreements were the Minsk agreements.

[-] Catradora_Stalinism@hexbear.net 15 points 1 year ago

Hexbear we found a good one do not be mean to them they are precious

[-] Babs@hexbear.net 6 points 1 year ago

This might be helpful as well, a language map of Ukraine I found on wikipedia. The red areas are the areas with a majority of Russian speakers, in Crimea and the southeast. It's a census from 2001 too, so it's not like this is a recent thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Ukraine#/media/File:UkraineNativeLanguagesCensus2001detailed-en.png

Here's another wikipedia map of the area called Donbas. It lines up pretty well with the Russian speakers in the first map. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donbas#/media/File:Donetsian_Region_in_Ukraine_(claims_hatched).svg

Now here's where things get complicated. Eastern Ukraine and Crimea have a pretty stark political split that also follows these lines. Here's an election map from 2010. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:%D0%94%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B3%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D1%82%D1%83%D1%80_2010_%D0%BF%D0%BE_%D0%BE%D0%BA%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B3%D0%B0%D1%85-en.png

Yanukovich, the blue guy, was overthrown in the Euromaiden coup in 2014.

Interestingly, in 2019 a certain Russian speaking presidential candidate from Eastern Ukraine ran for president and won, with his strongest political support coming from these same regions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Ukrainian_presidential_election#/media/File:2019_Ukrainian_presidential_election,_round_2.svg

I don't claim to fully understand the history of the country, or the various coups/revolutions, or even really what modern Ukraine is like, but whatever is going on it probably has something to do with this.

this post was submitted on 25 Oct 2023
60 points (100.0% liked)

askchapo

22749 readers
427 users here now

Ask Hexbear is the place to ask and answer ~~thought-provoking~~ questions.

Rules:

  1. Posts must ask a question.

  2. If the question asked is serious, answer seriously.

  3. Questions where you want to learn more about socialism are allowed, but questions in bad faith are not.

  4. Try !feedback@hexbear.net if you're having questions about regarding moderation, site policy, the site itself, development, volunteering or the mod team.

founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS