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Human rights are edgy now
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 24 Oct 2023
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You want Israel to give land back to Egypt and Jordan?
Why?
No, the current idea is to create a Palestinian state using the land that Israel currently occupies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_territories
But I suspect you are trying (and failing) to create some "gotcha" moment. Israel doesn't have the legal right to annex Gaza, the West Bank, or East Jerusalem. They simply control it because they have more guns.
That's generally how "legal rights" have historically worked among nations.
It's always funny when people act like they know about a subject, and then argue against things that have long been settled. Acquiring territory through war has been illegal since before Israel existed as a modern country.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_conquest
It doesn't matter what "historically worked". Weapons in the past 100 years are too powerful to allow for conquest. Israel's occupation of Gaza, the West Bank, and East Jerusalem violate international norms and the international community doesn't recognize occupation as justified.
And they can't just keep the land because they were attacked first. Only defensive wars are permitted under international law.
That's not a "current" idea, and is only diplomatically material. Hell it's only historically diplomatically material because Jordan and Egypt don't give a rat's ass about Palestinians after Palestinian refugees attempted coups in their countries.
My point is that the Gaza strip and West Bank were won in the Six Day War from Jordan and Egypt, so I'm not sure who OP means when they say "return land"
Palestine isn't a country, wasn't ever a country, and was only offered the possibility of becoming a country by Israel.
Palestine is recognised as a state by huge portions of the world. While, yes, it wasn't a state in the history of the region, the Palestinian people lived in the region under British and formerly Ottoman rule. Israeli settlers haven't taken land from the state of Palestine, but they have taken it from the people who have lived in Palestine since the 7th century.
This is just the same argument with different words. They took land from Egyptians and Jordanians when they won the war. There were no "Palestinian people" as any sort of political bloc, prior to 1967.
If the Palestinian people want their own county, they should take one of the many deals they've been offered to have their own country.
I'm not talking about the Gaza strip, I'm talking about the area that was once Mandatory Palestine. That land was conquered by the British during the fall of the Ottoman empire, and subsequently taken over to become (most of) what is now Israel and Palestine. Before the Mandate, you're right that Palestine as an idea didn't exist, but ther were still people there - most of them Arabs, as had been the case for a very long time before Britain invaded and allowed settlers in. Perhaps the Arabs living in Mandatory Palestine should have taken the "deal" offered them by the UN in 1947, but can you blame them? As far as they were concerned their home had been conquered by a colonial power, settlers had arrived from overseas, and now the UN wanted to slice Palestine in two and give half to the settlers! Since then, to the people who have been displaced, I imagine every new deal just seems like they're being hemmed further into a corner. I understand why they wouldn't accept, even though personally I agree that, at some point, they should have - much bloodshed would have been avoided.
Their home has already been conquered, several thousand years prior, and the British did not colonize the area.
Sorry who's home was conquered when? The British Empire might not have colonised Palestine but they did conquer it and allow settlers in with the intention of forming a state for the Jews.
The Ottoman Empire conquered the area from the empire that existed before them, who conquered it from an empire that existed before them, all the way back to prehistory
Roughly it's,
There was never any political entity known as Palestine until Israel sought to create one.
I never intended to disagree with that, but my point was that just because the nation of Palestine didn't exist 500 years ago does not mean that the people who today we call the Palestinians hold no claim to the land.
And it certainly doesn't mean that Israel has a claim to it, does it? There was no State of Israel before 1948, either, what claim did they have to it?
It didn't exist ever.
Israel successfully defended their claim through war, which is ultimately the only way that matters.
War is the only way that matters! Small consolation to the colonised and conquered. Do we not aim to hold ourselves to higher standards in the modern age? Imagine if our world leaders decided that the only thing that mattered is defending land through war!
I don't have to imagine. This is literally every country on the planet.
Things that make you sad can be, and often are, true.
Clearly they don't, otherwise we wouldn't have anyone trying to mediate conflicts, anyone calling for ceasefire in Gaza. Do we just accept Russia invading Ukraine? If Russia flattened the country and took over, do you think that would be justified? Don't get me wrong, I don't think there would be a procession of countries willing to invade and take it back, but that isn't because Russia would have claimed the land, it would be because they fear for their own people's lives.
Why, if you think every country in the world is only respecting borders because of military power, doesn't the US just take over? They certainly have tje military power to back up an invasion of almost any country on the planet.
Don't know why you are getting down voted when that's literally what happened.
People don't care about what's factual. They care about what confirms their priors.
Again still being down voted. Alot! These pro Palestine need to actually read what has actually happened over there and what Israel and the Jewish have been through over there I got humbled real quick watching this.its funny how they can scream kill the Jews but when the Jews say kill the Palestinians it's instantly pulled back. It's only Hamas. Well didn't jiltwr say kill and gas all Jews. We are walking right back to ww2 again it's ridiculous.
https://youtu.be/dEoVzKyD_IM?si=bi0zByaQkvReT_1Q
And I know most will go eww Ben Shapiro. Dudes spewing facts look it up.
Actually, "Palestine" is the historic name for the region. Denying it's existence is denying the existence of the Kingdom of Israel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
Your weird erasure of the concept of "Palestine" would be called anti-Semitic if you were talking about Israel. I'm just going to assume it's bigotry at this point. Some Palestinians have roots going back thousands of years in the region. Israel is Palestine dummy.
So not a country, then, as your link confirms.
Facts again.