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They were told to leave their homes. They did. They were still bombed
(www.middleeasteye.net)
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this post was submitted on 10 Oct 2023
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You're acting like we're just talking about "actions" that people are "doing."
What you're ignoring is the apartheid society created by Israel. They're directly responsible for the conditions that foster this type of response.
This isn't a "both sides are just as bad" thing. One of these groups has been horrifically oppressed and kept in the largest open-air prison on the planet for nearly 100 years. Any time Hamas has attacked Israeli soldiers (you know, because they're literally kicking them out of their family homes they've lived in for generations. Which is genocide btw), Israel has responded by slaughtering hundreds to thousands of Palestinian (not Hamas) civilians. It's completely disproportionate.
I'm not defending or justifying, just trying to explain.
Displacement isn't genocide.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_Convention#Definition_of_genocide
Seems to fit to me.
It seems to fit to you because your initial operating assumption is that you should support the terrorists here and everything else you believe is distorted to meet those expectations.
For instance, Israel told the civilians to move to the city of 120k people that is called a refugee camp, but is in fact a full on 80 year old city, and fourteen people died in an airstrike on a Hamas position.
But you didn't Google the city "camp" or look past the claims at all, because your initial assumption is "Israel bad, Hamas good."
You are indeed defending terrorists who kill families of civilians with no overarching military goal in mind at all.
no one says hamas is good. but they don't need to be in order for israel to be bad.
You know nothing about me, and fuck you for making an accusation like that. Shameful.
I know what you state, and that's what you stated.
If that offends you, take a long look in the mirror and sort your life out
Lol ok bud. Can you tell me my star sign too?
terrorist is loaded language.
Terrorism is indeed when you kill civilians with no military aim in mind. Invading a country specifically to murder their families in their homes is absolutely terrorism.
by this definition every colonizer is a terrorist, which means that the israelis are terrorists. maybe we just shouldn't use the term, and instead condemn bad actions and bad actors on the merits of the actions without the political label.
Maybe you shouldn't use the term "colonizer" since that's a dumb fuck term.
colonization happens, and it's perpetrated by colonizers.
why should the military aim matter? THAT'S PURELY POLITICAL. terrorism just means you don't LIKE the politics of the person doing the killing.
Terrorism is explicitly killing done without military targets in mind. It's explicitly political, and targeted at civilians, to instill terror.
I'm sorry you don't like the definition of the word, but it is the definition of the word.
like police shooting black men
No that's just good old fashioned racism combined with stupidly poor recruiting and training practices.
make any excuse you want: it fits the definition you gave
It really doesn't, but you'll never care about reason anyway. You're just another edgelord.
call me any names you want,: you're the one whose definition of terrorist includes cops
Yes I am aware that I am correct.
you're flip flopping
No I'm not. I don't even have context because I don't care, but I don't change opinions easily because I'm almost always right
it's loaded language. i know what the definition is, but using it only means you don't like the politics of the killers.
No it means they're doing things that fit the definition.
being loaded language, using it actually means what I said.
Every member of Hamas is likely going to die like the terrorist scum they are, and the world will be a markedly better place for it
Nothing you say will change that fact.
the phrasing makes me think you think this hurdtmy feelings. in truth it just shows your too small minded to understand why terrorist use a meaningless label
I don't care about your feelings. I care about dead terrorists.
again: terrorist isn't a meaningful epithet.
but you do seem obsessed with my feelings
No I don't even know who you are. I've never read your screen name. You could be the initial person I responded to or just some other idiot terrorist sympathizer.
no one is sympathising with terrorists for any objective application of the label, because objective application of that label is impossible.
No it's pretty easy. When you force your way into a place specifically to murder civilians with no other goal other than to spread terror, you're a terrorist.
You agreeing with terrorists makes you a bad person, it doesn't make them "not terrorists."
terrorist isn't an objective label, no matter how much emotionally charged language you use. what you described is murder. calling it terrorism is a political position.
Lol
this isn't a refutation. it's an appeal to ridicule.
Yes that is what your every post deserves
it's a fallacious argument that doesn't undermine my actual position at all, it just betrays a lack of ability or interest to engage with intellectual honesty.
like police shooting black men
Because that's what I said. It's like you can't even try to act in good faith.
Love how there's no call for responsibility when it's Israel committing the atrocities. Here's just some examples out of thousands:
A child being collaterally hit in an air strike or as part of an ongoing military campaign is not at all equivalent to beheading babies because you want to exterminate Jews.
Both are bad, in the way that stepping on a rusty nail and being hit by a train are both bad, and they are similarly not equivalent.
I wasn't really ignoring it, merely addressing the point that was raised.
I've said this elsewhere, but going through and trying to tally up who's done what and which side is worse is pretty much a futile exercise. It won't lead to any useful resolution. They've been going at it for so long, both sides have done horrific things that were disproportionate responses to the other side. They've pretty much done it all. The bigger issue is less what they do, more that they both keep doing it.
This just is not true. There is a massively imbalanced power dynamic there. They've been keeping the Palestinian population in an open-air prison for at least half a century. They're literally incapable of responding disproportionately to what Israel is constantly doing to them. They don't have the resources or freedom of movement.
Just look up the casualty statistics on both sides since at least since the end of WW2. It's been some time since I've looked at them, but we're talking at least one (possibly more) order of magnitude difference between the two.
I would say raiding towns and villages and beheading babies is a disproportionate response to anything.
There is definitely a power imbalance, and Israel has probably killed more Palestinians overall than the other way around. However, Israel have also shown some measure of restraint up until now - they've never completely eradicated Palestine, as Palestinians frequently claim to want for Israelis and have previously attempted to do, even though Israel actually could. Israel has definitely not shown enough restraint, but they've shown more than they would likely face if the balance of power was the other way around.
There's also the twisted mess of politics. Members of the government of Israel have at many times over the years promoted the support of terrorist groups in Palestine as a way of destabilising Palestine as a nation. So, even while the actions of Hamas on Saturday were horrific and unforgiveable, some Israelis have actively been encouraging this kind of thing.
Like I say, tallying up who's done what doesn't really get you anywhere. Both have done horrific and unforgiveable things. It's like comparing shit covered apples to shit covered oranges, you can talk about the differences as much as you like - and you might even be correct in everything you say - but at the end of the day the biggest problem is that they're both covered in shit.
The IDF are no saints. They've done some awful awful things. Including targeting clearly marked medics and press, and murdering children for throwing rocks at them.
Yep, it is relatively easy to find video of IDF humiliating and torturing young people at checkpoints or around their home in the most cowardly manner on earth, seriously it was hard to see.