Europe
News and information from Europe 🇪🇺
(Current banner: La Mancha, Spain. Feel free to post submissions for banner images.)
Rules
- This is an English-language community. Comments should be in English. Posts can link to non-English news sources when providing a full-text translation in the post description. Automated translations are fine, as long as they don't overly distort the content.
- No links to misinformation or commercial advertising. When you post outdated/historic articles, add the year of publication to the post title. Infographics must include a source and a year of creation; if possible, also provide a link to the source.
- Be kind to each other, and argue in good faith. Don't post direct insults nor disrespectful and condescending comments. Don't troll nor incite hatred. Don't look for novel argumentation strategies at Wikipedia's List of fallacies.
- No bigotry, sexism, racism, antisemitism, islamophobia, dehumanization of minorities, or glorification of National Socialism. We follow German law; don't question the statehood of Israel.
- Be the signal, not the noise: Strive to post insightful comments. Add "/s" when you're being sarcastic (and don't use it to break rule no. 3).
- If you link to paywalled information, please provide also a link to a freely available archived version. Alternatively, try to find a different source.
- Light-hearted content, memes, and posts about your European everyday belong in other communities.
- Don't evade bans. If we notice ban evasion, that will result in a permanent ban for all the accounts we can associate with you.
- No posts linking to speculative reporting about ongoing events with unclear backgrounds. Please wait at least 12 hours. (E.g., do not post breathless reporting on an ongoing terror attack.)
- Always provide context with posts: Don't post uncontextualized images or videos, and don't start discussions without giving some context first.
(This list may get expanded as necessary.)
Posts that link to the following sources will be removed
- on any topic: Al Mayadeen, brusselssignal:eu, citjourno:com, europesays:com, Breitbart, Daily Caller, Fox, GB News, geo-trends:eu, news-pravda:com, OAN, RT, sociable:co, any AI slop sites (when in doubt please look for a credible imprint/about page), change:org (for privacy reasons), archive:is,ph,today (their JS DDoS websites)
- on Middle-East topics: Al Jazeera
- on Hungary: Euronews
Unless they're the only sources, please also avoid The Sun, Daily Mail, any "thinktank" type organization, and non-Lemmy social media (incl. Substack). Don't link to Twitter directly, instead use xcancel.com. For Reddit, use old:reddit:com
(Lists may get expanded as necessary.)
Ban lengths, etc.
We will use some leeway to decide whether to remove a comment.
If need be, there are also bans: 3 days for lighter offenses, 7 or 14 days for bigger offenses, and permanent bans for people who don't show any willingness to participate productively. If we think the ban reason is obvious, we may not specifically write to you.
If you want to protest a removal or ban, feel free to write privately to the admin that applied the rule (check modlog first to find who was it.)
view the rest of the comments
Oh yes, in the end there are only so much of them how many could they are? A couple million people ? Two hundred thousand ? Twenty thousand ? What's the number that make right the same thing AfD want supposely to do to people who has no right to be in German in the first place, with the difference that AfD removing them simply means sending them home ?
You are an hypocrite: you have no problem using the same methods you protest against simply because this time these methods fit your agenda. And because you have no better argument than violence.
No, these voters will see what you did and will vote for even more extremist parties. You are a fool if you are thinking that to win these votes you can simply ban a party and then remove (violently ?) who protest this act. Not to consider the fact that these voters vote for AfD exactly because in their opinion CDU e FDP sucks.
Just to say, Hitler begin his rise chatting in bars, so maybe it is not such good thing.
I think way more than you think. 10/15 years ago you could be right, now I am not that sure.
Ok, so you are ok with removing low thousands citizen in order to not solve a problem but only to hide it under the rug.
What can be go wrong ?
I don't think they meant to use violence anyway. And in your way you don't presenve anything, you impose it and it is very different.
Nope. I don't really think that an eventual AfD 2.0, which would learn from how and why the AfD was removed, could be automatically banned or that you would be able to ban them without streching the law because the first time you will get people like AfD, or the first generation of Le Pen or guys like Vannacci and Salvini.
The second round will have people more intelligent (like Marine Le Pen which politically speaking is an improvement over the first Le Pen) which would present the same program in a more suitable way. Honestly, speaking for Italian situation, if there would be some more presentable guy than Vannacci or Salvini who is able to present the same program in a better and less extreme way, it would win without any problem. Same for Le Pen and AfD.
You people still do not understand that AfD, Vannacci, Le Pen, Trump and Right extremism are not a cause, they are an effect. Solve the causes and the problem is gone, cure only the effects and the problems only become worse.
And as I said, you don't solve the problem simply hiding it under the rug.
So what's the problem of "removing" a few thousands illegal immigrants (for example) in order to avoid that the right far parties have "ammunitions" against the democracy ?
Or, better, what's the problem with "removing" all the criminals in the cities that make living the cities impossible in certain zones or after a given time, removing even more "ammunitions" to the far right ?
I am pretty sure that people in the cities would love to be able to walk around their city without the fear to be victim of a petty crime.
But again, you are focusing on the effects, not the causes.
And if it is needed to deport a bit of illegal immigrants every couple of years, well, I think the government can arrange that.
Still sounding good to you ?
So, AfD say that there are too many illegal immigrants, people see that it is true (come on, you just need to walk around the city) and they voted them.
You remove the illegal immigrants, AfD what can say now ?
If they say there are still illegal immigrants and people don't see them (or do not consider this a problem anymore) then they consider AfD good-for-nothings (ok, some will continue to vote for them, idiots are always present) Result: AfD has not anymore a way to weaponize illegal immigration, you remove an "ammunition" in their propagandistic "weapon".
Do this for almost every point AfD make and you end up with a society that is better and AfD gone back to the irrelevant group it was when born, like every extremist party.
Some problem would not be completely solved, it is not possible, but you just need to lower them below a threshold that make it bearable and you remove them anyway from the arsenal the far right parties can use in their propaganda.
Let me give you an example of what already happened in the same exact way: back then, in my city (Milan, Italy), every now and then there would be someone at an intersection offering to wash your windshield; people didn’t mind because it happened only occasionally—in fact, they often accepted the service in exchange for a few coins. When these people started showing up at every single intersection (sometimes even more than one person at a single intersection), becoming pushy, and causing minor damage to cars if you refused, people began to see them as an increasingly annoying problem.
Did you know what happened ?
What happened was that, after two elections, the candidate who promised to eliminate the problem was elected—after the other candidates had twice downplayed, if not outright denied, the problem. And he won because he was able to target these people and brand them as a problem (in part they truly were, but for the most part they were just desperate people), and the electorate identified with what he was saying—they had firsthand experience with exactly what the “extremist” candidate was describing.
If the ruling party had addressed the issue, this extremist candidate would never have won: what could he have latch onto? A few persons who occasionally wants to wash your windshield at an intersection? If he had used that as a campaign issue, he would have been ridiculed.
Basically the ruling parties decided to offer the extremist candidates ammunitions, the same errors the ruling parties in most of Europe are doing right now.