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NYC pro-Palestine rally splits Democrats over Israel
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this post was submitted on 08 Oct 2023
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Hamas should have considered that before massacring hundreds of citizens, but it's never once cared about actually achieving peace.
Its founding document literally calls for the complete eradication of all Jews from the land.
And its leaders don't care about the Palestinian people. They live safely (and very comfortably) in other countries. If Palestinians get killed by Israelis, Hamas leaders will just see it as a way to advocate for more violence against Jews.
And vice versa
I admit to not having read the Israeli founding documents but I’d bet it doesn’t call for eradicating Palestinians.
Without a doubt, Israeli policy hasn't been conducive to piece either. The leadership of both sides are absolutely terrible, which has apparently become a very hot take.
What Israel has not done is gone around murdering every Palestinian it can find (which would be over very quickly, if they actually wanted to).
Hamas is an ugly outgrowth of Israeli oppression and was supported initially by Israel. The problem is that the side with all the power, Israel, doesn't want justice. Only when that changes will peace come
Hamas is an ugly outgrowth of Iranian Anti Semitism. Israel has responded, quite ferociously, but they're not responsible for the hatred that pre dates the British mandate.
Israel literally just published a map with no Palestine, and said "Palestinians don't exist".
Difference being, Israel is the occupier saying this shit, and Palestinians have been occupied for decades.
If you're the kind of person who thinks that rape and murder could ever be justifiable actions so long as you say that you're resisting oppression, suffice it to say what we will not be seeing eye to eye on anything.
That map is stupid though and obviously unhelpful. I'm not claiming that Israel hasn't committed any atrocities either.
What Israel is doing is ethnic cleansing of all Palestinians, not just hamas. Do you feel like a hero for saying ethnic cleansing is justifiable because some Palestinians raped and murdered some people that were stealing their land?
Of course it's gray, of course there are bad actors on both sides. But the entirety of Israel is modern colonialism, and excusing their actions of ethnic cleansing is supporting white supremacy
If Israel is trying to ethnically cleanse Palestinians, it's doing an astonishingly bad job at it given their overwhelming dominance in fire power
Not that you care, but for anyone who does care about facts, most Israelis are from the Middle East, not Europe. A huge amount of the come from Jewish populations that were expelled from Arab countries. There used to be Jewish people all throughout the Middle East, for thousands of years. In the last hundred years, they've essentially all been forcibly expelled. You might even call it ethnic cleansing.
Literally, just imagine what it would look like if Israel was expelling Palestinians the way Iraq expelled Jews.
Why does Iraq expelling Jewish people give Israelis the right to steal Palestinian land? Are you suggesting all Arab ethnicities are the same?
Funnily enough, I didn't actually claim that, if you look. I haven't actually claimed that any Israeli expansion is justifiable, and particularly in the case of West Bank settlements, I would unequivocally state that they're blatantly illegal and counterproductive towards any eventual peace.
That still doesn't justify taking a bunch of civilian hostages and threatening to murder them on a livestream.
The solution here is to destroy all of Hamas and the IDF.
That wouldn't prevent the IDF from committing human rights abuses against Palestinians, which they have continued to do regardless of Hamas activities, especially in West Bank.
If only Hamas was the only threat, Hezbollah kicked into action when this started up.
The solution here is for the Palestinian people to rise up and get rid of the government that's using them as human shields. Israel has attempted to work towards peace before, only to be rejected by terrorists. Get a democratic government in place, and there's hope.
That hope is also dependant on the Right wing government of Israel being replaced but based on history Bibi won't last 6 months after this defensive failure.
I mean Hamas had some really good PR going but they really, really fucked up this time.
Many countries now withdrawing aid, most are reluctantly supporting Israel because most countries despite being just as guilty as Israel, know that Israel is the West's proxy in the middle east.
The blood of both Palestinian civilians and Israeli civilians, and the imminent occupation of the region is going to be on their hands.
I don't know what they're smoking.
You're assuming they ever had a deeper plan than "Kill as many Jews as possible".
Any progress towards actual peace must begin and end with ending all violence and ensuring Israel's security. Once it feels that it's safe, Israel could end the blockade, support economic and social development, and begin normalization of relations.
Violence makes that completely impossible and does nothing but make Israel guarantee that attacks like this never happen again, and many Palestinians are going to die in the process. Hamas knew this, but didn't care because they've never been trying to actually help Palestinians. Their sole aim, as enshrined in their founding charter, is just to kill Jews.
75% of Israelis today were born there, so where exactly should they go?
Israel is 80 years old, 100% of Palestinians in Israel were born in Palestine, and have ancestors for thousands of years.
How many Israelis moved from Brooklyn to steal that land?