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Women are better off under the Taliban than under US occupation?
https://static.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/afghanistan-1960-bill-podlich-photography-112__880.jpg
Before US - Taliban alliance
This photo is from the late 60s, so 25 years before the Taliban was created.
Because US intervention began with the Taliban. 🙄
If you want to only look at the US intervention in Afghanistan holistically, then sure, you can make an argument that overall it has been negative, especially given the disastrous pull-out.
But to me a "case of Western intervention" is not the complete history of one country's interactions with another - it can be divided into separate cases. US funding of the mujahideen was one case, and the US overthrow of the Taliban was another case. Not disconnected cases. But maybe this explains a point of view that you hadn't considered when you wrote your original comment.
The other issue here is that when you responded on US intervention in West Germany you seemed only to really focus on Operation Paperclip. But viewed from further out, that didn't really impact the BRD significantly in comparison to the huge effort put towards rebuilding.
It strikes me though that probably you didn't mean quite so absolute a statement, which to me seems outlandishly, unrealistically strong. There's no way you've done the level of historical research necessary to really conclude that with any great confidence, right? Surely you've seen a lot of instances of harmful interventions and concluded, "they're all, or at least mostly, harmful"? Maybe that'd be a statement a lot of people could agree with.
US intervention created the Taliban
Yeah I know Afghanistan was really at the forefront of womens' rights before the American showed up
It was under the Soviets, not so much under the U.S. backed Mujahedeen/Taliban.
You manufactured the world you condemn.
'The world' is a bit more complex than you'd want
The Soviets didn't get to power democratically in Afghanistand, but through a coup. After the coup, in true Soviet fashion, the 'People's Party' started a wave of massive executions and disappearances, making the new government... not very popular. Most of the support for the mujahedeen actually came from Pakistan, with much more limited support from China and the US. But the latter became the best known because they supplied the manpads that finally broke the occupation force.
By this I mean to illustrate my above post in that the strong undercurrent of islamism wasn't conjured up out of thin air by the US, it was already there.
Sure a socialist revolution could have ultimately ended in better conditions for women, but in the same sense, the US occupation and transition to democracy could have provided this.
And, dare I say even on Lemmy: womens' rights are currently a lot better off in the countries coming out of the NATO side of the Cold War than in those that came out of the USSR.
That is no more true now than it was then.
Afghanistan was a brutal monarchy before a popular revolution. The PDPA was democratic communist government. That's when the West started arming Islamist, and why the Soviet Union invaded. They were objectively more democratic than a Monarchy or Islamist rule.
Now today, America arms over 80% of all dictatorships, including THE WORST FOR WOMENS RIGHTS.
Stop trying to paint imperialism and war as feminist. You already have shown you don't understand history or the modern day, maybe you don't know what's best for women on the other side of the world either.
It was about oil then, it's about oil now, and has fuck all to do with women.
Oil production in Afghanistan is very, very low. You'll have to look into the history of the Cold War to understand why the US supported the Mujahedeen. Neither they nor Pakistan (who, as said were the main supporters) seem to have been interested in Afghani oil.
You seem to want to make this into some USA = BAD argument while I'm mere pointing out that there was always a huge islamic antifeminist undercurrent. There's so many violently mysoginist men that they were able to throw out both the communists and the US, lol
Also, how do you see the PDPA as a democratic government? They just took power in a coup
Well, the D in their name for one. How do you create a democracy in a dictatorships without a "coup", as you put it? Bro. I was taught from a young age that the Soviet occupation was to secure access to the Middle East oil fields. That's true for them and not our occupation?
They call it the graveyard of empires for a reason. It's never not been strategic.
You don't make much sense with this top down backwards justification.
Well that settles it
At least it's aspirational. It was a warlord before.
Kind of, yes 😅. Only it was in the Seventies, when the US showed up and supported the radical Islamists.
I think you have to look at overall outcomes not what it was like under the occupation. In Afghanistan things were probably slightly better in the larger population centers during the occupation for the average person and especially for women. In the rural settings things were worse from the constant skirmishes. And as we saw basically everything was reversed as soon as the troops left.
probably slightly better