this post was submitted on 27 Sep 2026
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Dude seemed cartoonishly cruel, people knew he was molesting kids.

Any good scholarship on wtf they were thinking leaving him in power and free?

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[–] ComradeRat@hexbear.net 33 points 6 days ago (3 children)

So the big issue with scholarship on Beria is he's one of the least accessible (possibly the single least accessible) bolshevik leader to study.

According to Sheila Fitzpatrick in the introduction or preface to On Stalin's Team, when she was allowed access to some of the soviet archives Beria's were off limits. Khrushchev, Stalin, Lenin, Molotov, Yagoda, Yezhov, etc were accessible, Beria's was shut. From what she wrote, his archives werent shut to just her, or to westerners, but to literally everyone.

Fitzpatrick's introduction also notes that most (all?) of the accusations of Beria postdate Khrushchev's secret speech, after which Beria was dead and he and Stalin were used as sin-eaters for the rest of the Soviet government.

She says that bc the archives are shut, what we know of Beria is based pretty much entirely on four groups of sources: 1. pre-1956 official public documents and such ("Comrade Beria is a diligent defender of the USSR"); 2. post-1956 documents ("Beria was a monster and he and Stalin caused every problem"; 3. Beria's son's memoirs ("my dad was a decent guy"; and 4. apocryphal stories which are difficult to date or validate ("Stalin was afraid to leave Beria alone with his daughter"). Besides 2 and 4 (and 4 may well largely be derived from 2) these all paint entirely different pictures, and without archive access theres no real way to prove which is closest to reality.

Fitzpatrick doesnt claim "Beria was innocent" tbc, just notes that there is very little at all that can be said for sure about this question bc of lack of archival access.

[–] insurgentrat@hexbear.net 17 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

I'll have to read that book! Apparently she's a very respected historian so that'll be informative.

Having the archives sealed does make me extremely sus though, obviously no state intelligence head is going to be a nice person and the actions during ww2 were probably especially bleak given the existential threat but it's been a while. It would be good to know the truth.

At least the people around him seemed pretty scared of him after Stalin's death.

[–] ComradeRat@hexbear.net 14 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Yeah she's easy to read too. Very good at making the subject come alive

To play devils advocate (to attempt to show why its really hard for historians to say for sure one way or the other in cases like these): the archives being sealed could also suggest they dont line up with the official narrative, as well as the other reasons i suggested to electric nan.

People were scared of him and hated him, but as you say no one's saying beria's a nice guy (except perhaps his son): historians' debate here is entirely over whether or not he was a child molester, not over whether or not he signed off on mass executions and imprisonments

[–] insurgentrat@hexbear.net 9 points 6 days ago

To play devils advocate (to attempt to show why its really hard for historians to say for sure one way or the other in cases like these): the archives being sealed could also suggest they dont line up with the official narrative, as well as the other reasons i suggested to electric nan.

Yes this is readily apparent, although I think less relevant given the distance between the powers in the russian federation and post stalin ussr. Implicating current oligarchs seems more plausible, or harming the security forces and being too disinterested in truth (especially truth potentially damaging to the russian national character) to bother redacting seems more plausible to me.

The one thing americans do ok at is admitting their crimes... when everyone involved is beyond justice or restitution anyway.

[–] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 9 points 6 days ago

but as you say no one's saying beria's a nice guy (except perhaps his son)

Also his wife if I remember reading something from her correctly

[–] SkingradGuard@hexbear.net 15 points 6 days ago

The only logical explanation is that Beria was an alien

[–] electric_nan@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 days ago (4 children)

I don't know anything about this topic, but the archives being singularly locked down suggests (to me), that they have some very bad stuff in there.

[–] darkcalling@hexbear.net 23 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

The thing is it does the opposite for me. Modern Russia is happy to slander the USSR. To say socialism was bad, that modern liberal Russia is superior. There's some sensitivity around slandering say the red army or going too far in slandering top leaders who are heroes even to modern Russians in the same way Washington has a legacy in the US to many USians.

There may also be sensitive sources that were cultivated that are still relevant littered through his files.

It's conceivable if there is evidence he did these things that they fear it being scandalous or opening up some public discourse but I don't think it says anything except that an intelligence director who operated in a sensitive time may have files that are still sensitive. His relationships with his western counterparts for example could contain things that would enrage the west if released or cause problems. Sources, assets of his could still have some relevance as perhaps the Russian state cultivated familial loyalty in some of those sources families that holds to this day.

Just the angle of keeping the mystique I think is enough for the liberal capitalist modern Russian state. Because if it exonerates him, if it says he only tortured Nazis and the worst fascist scum and never touched a child well then people would say how honorable, how good socialism is that even a man like that carried out his duty but was otherwise decent and make the modern situation look bad.

In light of all the slander I choose to believe Beria was an innocent man who did his duties to the revolution faithfully. No perfectly but neither was Stalin, Lenin, etc. But good enough and that given the situation we live with the slanderous lies about Stalin, the USSR, etc I don't think it helps us to engage with such slander that has no real good proof. If it should some day come out it was true then sure we condemn, disavow, etc. But those making the accusations, the interests at hand make it impossible to believe the slander. Much in the same way there's an industry around slander of the DPRK by defectors cultivated by South Korea a bigger one exists around the USSR which has a dead state people may feel even more free to make up whatever about.

I mean we know the west, the CIA has sexually tortured children as part of their mind control experiments. That there was evidence they destroyed to hide possible child sex abuse blackmail rings they ran, that Epstein operated with their consent, etc. It all comes across as so much projection from the pedophile west.

[–] jackmaoist@hexbear.net 5 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Not really. Modern Russia still wants to claim the Soviet legacy and releasing the Beria Files is not going to go nicely to say the very least.

[–] sisatici@hexbear.net 5 points 6 days ago

True, except for yetsin period. I would say any document that could be used for anti soviet propaganda would have been released during his era

[–] ComradeRat@hexbear.net 17 points 6 days ago

Could be yeah, but its equally possible that its locked away bc it proves khrushchev lied, or bc it incriminates some contemporary oligarch's granddaddy, or even bc no one wanted to spend the time and energy needed to sort it into more or less sensitive info and just slapped "do not open" on the whole thing and called itna day. From what ive read, theres not rly enough evidence available to make more than guesses in the dark

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 13 points 6 days ago

The Russian state is a liberal state that would very much like to harm the collective view of historical communism in the country in order to reduce its influence. If it's bad and would hurt the view of historical communists then there is little reason for a liberal party to be hiding it. On the contrary, it is more likely that it hurts existing narratives against communists that have since settled.

[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

The opposite, if there were something bad there, it would be used long ago to bash Beria, and through him indirectly Stalin and USSR (which was the reson black legend of Beria was manufactured in the first place). Read "Khrushchev Lied". Same was with Stalin's private archive, when it was opened anticommunists made quite a ruckus about how much atrocities and lies would be found inside and then immediately shot up when it contained not only nothing of sorts, but also proven that Stalin was man of integrity between his private and public figure.