this post was submitted on 26 Sep 2026
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Europe

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[โ€“] yayaro@sopuli.xyz 19 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Good. Slavery, forced work and stripping people off bodily autonomy is not a European value, and people who are forcing authoritarianism down our throats are no different than Putin supporters. I will fight for values, not for the flag and a song, and if Europe loses its course, its no longer worth defending.

[โ€“] varyingExpertise@feddit.org 5 points 6 days ago (1 children)

So, assume the Ukranian people had all followed that principle. What would their daily lives look like now?

[โ€“] yayaro@sopuli.xyz 3 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Well, all the men (like half a million of them?) who were involuntarily conscripted, kidnapped from their homes, tortured to comply and killed in action would prefer to be alive.

[โ€“] varyingExpertise@feddit.org 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Alright. So in principle, the whole world should bow to the one head of state that is bound to exist somewhere that does not subscribe to these high ideals. Got it.

[โ€“] kossa@feddit.org 2 points 6 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

But...not forcing men to fight, doesn't mean that there's no army? I'm confused.

But anyway, if your country is attacked, but nobody (or too few) want to defend it voluntarily...maybe, that is kind of a vote with the feet, that either your odds are very bad anyways or that people rather chose to live in occupation and deem it less bad than fighting and dying ยฏ\_(ใƒ„)_/ยฏ

[โ€“] Bruuder@feddit.org 5 points 1 week ago (3 children)

You say you are fighting for values, but if you're not fighting for the nation or the union of nations that represent those values, it's just empty rhetoric

[โ€“] for_some_delta@beehaw.org 11 points 1 week ago

That's one way to say, "the nation-state must be part of your identity". I'm not into fighting wars for the wealthy.

[โ€“] electric_nan@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 week ago

What values? Genuinely. Which nation or union of nations is upholding good values? Germany? If you protest against genocide there, you will be beaten and jailed by the same government that wants to send you to die in Russia (again).

[โ€“] kossa@feddit.org 1 points 1 week ago

It's a conundrum, isn't it? If one of my values is "people should not be involuntarily drafted into the army", what to do then?

[โ€“] disco_tin@feddit.org -4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

People who call military service "slavery" are in the same category as those who say "taxes are theft".

[โ€“] for_some_delta@beehaw.org 5 points 1 week ago

Yes. Wage slavery is also a term they would use.