Mildly Infuriating
Home to all things "Mildly Infuriating" Not infuriating, not enraging. Mildly Infuriating. All posts should reflect that. Please post actually infuriating posts to !actually_infuriating@lemmy.world
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Toyota tried hydrogen years ago and it didn't really catch on. If the global gas economy crashes, I know a lot of locations they could use as hydrogen fuel pumps.
It didn't catch on because it's stupid on multiple levels, from infrastructure engineering to realpolitik. Japan as a nation is just desperate for energy independence and pretending the hydrogen will be sourced from the expensive electrolysis and not cheap natural gas refinement was a way to get free government money.
They convinced themselves that all the petrostates, which includes America and Russia, would just abandon their current economic advantage to pay them billions of dollars to rebuild their entire vehicle fuel infrastructure, since they would be the industry leaders and the only major source of engineering knowhow.
Well I'd like to add that Ford did too indirectly and it works. I personally rode both a fuel cell bus and one with a Ford Hydrogen combustion engine and both worked wonderfully. The hydrogen was sourced from electrolysis at a wind turbine. It was a proof of concept. And most relevantly... Toyota is at this again. It actually never quit because it is a smart move. Hydrogen can be easily had from natural gas or water and natural gas or oil is already the normal fuel. So you start at normal, then you switch when normal is gone. It's expensive but let's remember, Japan is an island with no oil deposits and a ton of smart people. Ofcourse they would try to figure it out.
It is perfectly functional but it is not clever, unless batteries, even LFP ones, that need no rare resources, are absolutely no option for whatever reason (we are talking about a factor of two more energy needed for doing the same as something battery powered). Hydrogen simply is much more inefficient over the whole cycle, no matter what you do, because of fundamental physics. Smart people can't rewrite those.
In Europe even the last hold outs and former champions of that technology are realising that.
Let's say that the goal is to move cars around without polluting and that you have a sun, a planet with wind, water streams, waves and with radioactive materials that can be fused or fissed. But no oil because that pollutes.
Sure, but if you need twice the energy for doing the same, that creates a larger CO2 footprint and higher resource demand (ie also more pollution) than the more efficient alternative, even if everything is based on renewable energies. But that is maybe too theoretical, more practical is the issue that the inefficient technology will struggle to become competitive.
There's no pollution past transition because the energy would come from wind, solar and or nuclear or other such renewables.
Renewables don't burn anything and nuclear only produces small quantities of waste. Specifically the new fusion reactors will produce no or much reduced waste. There's no C02 involved at all.
Realize that all of the sun energy is actually wasted. It literally just passes thru the planet every single day. All we do with solar is play with that energy by slowing its departure a little more than usual. Eventually the planet just gives it off to the rest of the universe via heat and other electromagnetic emissions. Further more, the sun is way larger than earth and it emits light that will never actually reach us. We are but a tiny sliver of all the sun's emissions. The rest of that power is just given off to the universe. Solar power is thus a permanent source that we can use specifically for transportation... Electrical or hydrogen. The question of inefficiency only has any meaning when comparing.
There are always pollution and costs to the environment for every human activity (at least on industrial scale). Renewables are just much better than the alternatives. However, if you can choose between wasting energy by the factor of two or not to do so, the option without the wasted energy is considerably better to the environment.
You can put your hopes on nuclear fusion but it is no different there as well. It also uses resources and also creates waste, that is, in case it every becomes a feasible alternative to begin with.
Regarding solar energy. It is not the energy transformation that is such a big issue, it is the economy of building (incl. resource extraction, transport, production and assembly), maintaining and recycling the infrastructure needed. All of that creates pollution even in a 100% renewable energy driven economy.