this post was submitted on 07 Jul 2026
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[–] flamingo_pinyata@sopuli.xyz 90 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (8 children)

Good. The way it should be. Housing is not wealth storage, it's a place to live.
Let's hope this fall spreads out of China.

[–] First_Thunder@lemmy.zip 16 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

The kiwis in New Zealand have seen the prices fall by a third iirc

[–] ogy@lemmy.zip 3 points 1 week ago

15% lower than it's all time 2022 peak right now

[–] psx_crab@lemmy.zip 6 points 2 weeks ago (28 children)

It's great for people who want to buy a house, great for ultra rich that want to buy out more property, but absolutely fucking people who just bought a house not too long ago.

[–] some_kind_of_guy@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

If you just bought (assuming standard 30 yr mortgage), all you have to do is hold through it. Refinance if that becomes favorable.

The only losers are those who are free and clear or toward the end of their mortgage AND looking to utilize the equity they built up, OR anyone looking to sell. The solution is time, which can kinda suck, but it's vastly preferable to not having a place to live.

[–] jrs100000@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

The solution is only time if market starts bubbling again, like it did after the last crash. Its also possible for asset prices to stagnate for decades, and its happened before.

[–] hanrahan@slrpnk.net 3 points 1 week ago

why? yiu bought a home to live in right ? you can still live in it. thet they're now cheaper for other folks who couldn't afford a home before, is a good thing.

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[–] Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

That does assume the Chinese housing market is the same as in many western countries though. But if so, bring it on.

[–] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 5 points 2 weeks ago

It fits somewhat with American sunbelt cities where there is significant growth and large developers building new houses. One issue which is common across borders is that real estate was a common way for people to invest their retirement savings; wiping out a lot of the savings of people near or at retirement isn't healthy. One issue that is more local to China is that Chinese provinces and municipalities have little ability to raise taxes, so they've been using development as a way to raise money; a lot of these governments have a lot of debt and few good ways to pay it back.

[–] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

The problem is that a lot of Chinese elderly used housing as a storage of wealth.

[–] SailorMoss@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

A few years ago in China a guy went viral on billibilli (their version of YouTube) for covering how hard it was to be retired in China. The CCP took his Channel away and censored him. Funnily enough in the years since the CCP has made strides in increasing the payout of their social security system.

So they censored him and then responded to the criticism anyway.

Honestly --minus the censorship-- I wish the US would handle it this way. Stop relying on 401ks and housing value to backstop peoples retirement and increase social security payouts. The elderly have earned their right to take a break from the grind of capitalism. They should be relaxing and passing on what they've learned from their time on earth to the next generation.

[–] ScoffingLizard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

My relaxation plan is suicide. Just like other millineals. Even though I've done way above average, there is no way I'll ever retire. It's literally illigical for me to not commit suicide. Who wants to be exhausted with nothing to look forward to?

[–] SailorMoss@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

That would make the wealthy very happy if you did that. They wouldn't have to pay taxes for your retirement.

My advice -- if you can't overcome your cynicism, go on to spite those fuckers who refuse to pay you enough for a comfortable retirement. To spite those who have denied you hope for the future, who want to work you to the bone and throw you in the trash.

Fuck those people, every breath you take is one less breath for Elon.

Having said that, we can organize and fight for a kinder world, that includes better social security that can pay for a comfortable retirement with people you care about. Don't let your cynicism devour you.

A better world is possible, take action. Join DSA or start a union or join another org. Mamdani has proven the system is not invincible.

[–] ScoffingLizard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I have tried and tried. Got three STEM degrees and 20 years experience, and still never known job security. Now I'm about to be laid off again. I'm tired boss. My family can survive if I check out, but might not if I don't. It's a bit of a situation.

It's not spite to continue being exhausted so a few assholes can be rich. I feel like it's more harmful to live. I'm also coming to terms that I'm a miserable person, so maybe I was never meant to be here in the first place.

[–] SailorMoss@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 week ago

It sounds like you have people around you who care about you. I don't know how much I, a random stranger on the internet can help. But know you're not alone in your feelings. Consider seeking out professional help if you're able to.

It may very well be irrational to keep on going. The universe doesn't guarantee us a happy existence. But understand it's irrational from a place of ego. Other people need you for their emotional well being if nothing else.

Hope is a thing with feathers, it may return someday. We must embrace hope long past time when it is rational, so that someday it may pirch again. Even if not for us.

This video has helped me work through these feelings some.

[–] voaw@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Friend, there are millions of us millennials out here who are in the same boat. You are not alone. I am confident we will, as a generation, improve living conditions for all of us in this lifetime. Capitalism is in its death throes and it sucks that we have to deal with all of the side effects of that, but we have the power to forge new ways of living, and will likely have no choice but to do just that in the near future.

[–] partofthevoice@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Just need to be extremely careful.

When you topple the existing power structure, it doesn’t guarantee that the next one is whichever you try ushering in. As propaganda-riddled as these points remain, the USSR a China are good examples. They went for communism but got something else in return.

Second point is that you will have to deal with propaganda. People will point to the dynamics of a power vacuum and blame the failures of handling that directly onto communism itself. So you’ll hear that communism leads to dictatorship. The truth is, change is dangerous. Communism alone doesn’t deserve the blame.

Third point is that you won’t be able to trust many people. If you have a good idea, some adversaries will try to convince you that it’s a bad one. If you have a bad idea, some adversaries will make you out to be the devil so that you loose support. Other adversaries might try to convince you that your bad idea is a good one. Either way, the goal is the same—your failure. These adversaries want their preferred way of life, not yours, and so you’re now competing.

Handling all of this is tough. If you die, who knows what person with what narrative takes your place? Assuming you dismantled the power structures that preserved the prior status quo, there’s now nothing left to steer the ship toward the good.

[–] voaw@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

All of these points are making the assumption that the system we currently have is just hunky dorey. Millions die of poverty and treatable illnesses in the US every year. Isn’t that dangerous? We are all subject to the whims of a tiny minority of sadistic billionaire warmongers and business owners who have captured our news and social media and all of the branches of government. Isn’t that dangerous? You’re just going to accept that we live in a country in which there is ever growing homelessness and preventable death because you’re afraid that a people’s revolution might not turn out as expected?

[–] partofthevoice@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

That’s not at all what I said. I’m not scared. In fact, I wish I could be the one to lead it. Because I know that I would respect the risks. I can’t say that I fully understand them, but I have something more than many people from the past… I have knowledge of their results. I know that I could be careful, that I could pour my life blood into such a project and ensure its successful completion at the expense of every fiber in my body. I’d educate myself, I’d hire experts, I’d build telemetry and run tests… I’d have a damn good plan, because it would take me years in the making. I have confidence there.

My concern is that I’m actually just a nobody. So, however such a revolution should take place, I point back to what I actually said…

Just need to be extremely careful.

[–] voaw@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

That's cool but you're coming from a very individualistic perspective. Any kind of revolution would be futile without the support of a mass labor movement that encourages workers to stand up for themselves and organize, something which needs to be the left's main objective before we can even think of revolution. A future disciplined vanguard party will serve the role you are talking about. But without a mass movement, any revolution would be crushed by the overwhelming power of the capitalist police state.

[–] partofthevoice@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

A future disciplined vanguard party will serve the role you are talking about.

Would the correct illustration be,

Leftist party leads workers in organizing
  ↓
Leftist party grows stronger at negotiating with workers being an organized expression of solidarity behind them
  ↓
The capitalist police state resists. I assume the police state is capitalistically empowered and enforced, but not capitalist in itself. Meaning it won’t sanction the leftist party, but it will use taxpayer funds investigate, legislate, harass, and sell propaganda which advanced its agenda.
  ↓
Worker solidarity survives a bureaucracy that, in its default state, is procedurally guiding you toward any condition where you have less autonomy. Forms a disciplined vanguard in cooperation with the left to further resist the state.
  ↓
Leftist party demands legislative change that would actually threaten the status quo, e.g., demanding an end to the Iran war, or demanding Buckley v. Valeo be amended to set spending limits on candidates, getting rid of dark money, etc.
  ↓
The capitalist state refuses, rejecting the authority of any such party. Declares the vanguard a terroristic entity, investigates its members, threatens to sanction the leftist party if efforts continue. The argument is, you ought pass you legislation the old fashion way.
  ↓
A voter revolution, by electing someone from the Leftist party to pardon the vanguard members and issue legislation to protect worker solidarity.
  ↓
If the vote fails, rough… if it doesn’t, the pardons pass but the legislation gets locked up in one of the best mannerisms of preventing change the system has: the system itself. The president tries forcing it through with tactics like Executive Orders, but that just fuels Rightist propaganda that the socialists are taking over. They’ll get the Trump defects too, claiming this is what Trump tried for fascism.
  ↓
The right forms their own vanguard, largely with internal help from the military, FBI, and other entities. Their goal is to “preserve democracy” or whatever. To them, the Leftist party is threatening communism — something they believe leads to dictatorship.
  ↓
Both sides believe they’re doing the right thing, adamantly believing the other is wrong. The risk of civil war is high. The president is seen with the responsibility of preventing civil war, but also knows this is his one shot to enact change. They probably shuffles into a lame duck position.
  ↓
The economy remains functional, which helps stave off a civil war. The president has accepted the pardons and recovery of the left vanguard as a win. To include having prevented executive action against the leftist party. The president is credited with having avoided a civil war for this long, though mostly by not stirring the pot much. Legislation remains locked up, but that’s considered the least of our worries by election time and we get them a second term.
  ↓
The second term is mostly a repeat of how the first one ended. Civil war concerns have died down quite a bit, though both vanguards still exist. Some on the Left have grown complacent, some frustrated with the feeling that nothing has actually changed.
  ↓
By the end of the second term, the Right has promoted some figure as The Man to end your woes by ensuring we go back to how things were. They’ll speak of traditional values, simpler times, and foreign threats that we should stay unified against. They’ll get elected.
  ↓
The three branches of government are suddenly working fluidly again and President The Man finds some novel way to fuck up the economy. We now have our traditional political problems, but with opposing vanguard infrastructure and knowledge at the ready.
  ↓
Individual states begin organizing support for one another, forging relationships to protect themselves with the aid of whichever vanguard their politics are aligned. There are three main factions to consider now: the left, the right, and the weakening federal government.
  ↓
The Left eventually do something to piss the Right off. Probably withholding taxes, moving their economic assets / supply lines out of red states entirely, or maybe it’ll be water wars by then… maybe the threat of secession.
  ↓
The President, aligned with the Right, try enforcing their will in the situation. The Left use their vanguard to prevent such measures. We’re perhaps one shot fired away from full on civil war.
  ↓
The second American Civil War occurs, because why wouldn’t it in conditions like that?
  ↓
God knows who wins. The rest of the world will move on by then. Western allies will hope we don’t turn out like Russia. Foreign adversaries will be hoping we destroy ourselves in this process. Who knows who intervenes and how…
[–] voaw@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Not sure what this AI slop is lol, but this is definitely not what I'm talking about. I recommend reading "How Marxism Works" by Chris Harman if you want to learn more to get a better idea of what I'm talking about. You can read it for free at this link: https://www.marxists.org/archive/harman/1979/marxism/

You're missing the whole part about the revolution. It's not a revolution brought about by voting or legislation. And it's also not about left vs. right. It's about the majority of people, the working class (farmers, factory workers, delivery drivers, teachers, healthcare workers, anyone who works for a wage and has a boss over them but also including small business owners in a lot of cases), engaging in a mass labor movement against the ruling class (bosses, large business owners, billionaires) in order to provide enough support to the vanguard party (see below) to take power and protect the movement/overwhelm the most likely violent reaction of the minority, wealthy, militaristic ruling class. This is all to achieve a government for the people by the people (to eradicate things like homelessness, mass job layoffs, and exorbitant home, food, and healthcare prices). We want a govt without the influence of billionaires, mega corporations, and the bourgeois political parties (like the Democrats & the Republicans).

Vanguard party (defined by ProleWiki):

The vanguard party, also called the vanguard, is the political party that is the most able to organize the proletariat and other popular classes (such as the peasantry) into a revolutionary party, and thus bring socialism to their country. The vanguard plays an important role in instilling revolutionary class consciousness amongst the proletariat and plays a critical role in the dictatorship of the proletariat in consolidating ties with the proletariat of other nations and maintaining the alliance of the workers and peasants. The vanguard is not a name a party gives themselves or gets bestowed upon them. A party becomes the vanguard when it proves to be the most capable at organizing the proletariat and achieving results. This also means the status of the vanguard can be lost if the party suddenly stops achieving results, or another party achieves even better results towards socialism.

[–] partofthevoice@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Not sure what this AI slop is lol

Awe shucks, I actually used my brain for that one. It was just a fun story.

I misunderstood what vanguard party is.

[–] voaw@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

Our current bourgeois parties would certainly not have any part in organizing the working class or creating a vanguard party. It is up to the people to organize/be organized in a mass movement outside of a political party that is controlled by and beholden to the rich guys in power. There are third parties in existence now (like the Green Party, Peace & Freedom Party in California, and DSA, if it ever decouples from the Democratic Party) that can help organize workers into a mass movement to support a future vanguard party and worker revolution. But it could also be a mass movement akin to what we saw in Minneapolis, people on the ground from a bunch of different groups (and people from no groups) coming together to oppose ICE. This is all usually spurred on by a sheer drop in living conditions, like we are witnessing right now, and which will only be exacerbated by the growing AI data center trend, which will destabilize water supplies, cause huge electrical service disruptions, and which may cause pollution on a scale we have not experienced in our lifetimes.

[–] boonhet@sopuli.xyz 2 points 1 week ago (2 children)

So they censored him and then responded to the criticism anyway.

Being criticized meant they were losing face. Saving face is very important in many Asian cultures.

Stop relying on 401ks and housing value to backstop peoples retirement and increase social security payouts

Not gonna work in an aging society unfortunately. Social security payouts come from current taxes. If you don't have enough young people, you can't really fund social security. If you have a national pension fund that collects money for your retirement as YOU work, it's not too different from a 401k, the only difference is who has control over it. Most countries don't do that though.

Fun story: My country has a system similar to 401k (it has deferred taxation, reduced taxation and government matching, so basically free money), but you couldn't take money out of it until retirement... Until a few years ago when conservatives changed it, so now you can take money out, but if you do, you pay full taxes and you can't resume payments for 10 years. At least a third of the country took that opportunity. Our equivalent of social security hasn't been significantly increased and in fact retirement age is being raised by roughly a month a year currently because otherwise the system would become unaffordable. At this point I'm considering cashing mine in in a few years only because I'm afraid that if the conservatives get enough power they'll manage to pass some stupid ass law taking away everyone's funds and using it to fund increased social security for their current old voters, at which point I'll just lose all of it unlike the people who have taken theirs out.

[–] homura1650@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago

All forms of retirement are funded by current workers. Social security is just more honest about it. A retired person is still consuming goods and services produced by the working without producing anything themselves.

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[–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Increase social security payouts with what?

Yes, everyone should have a pension plan, but you have to pay into that.

[–] SailorMoss@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 week ago

No you don't, money is fake, we made it up.

Maybe a pension system should be managed that way for inflationary reasons. But money does not exist until the state spends it into the economy. Dollars do not exist in nature.

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