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this post was submitted on 02 Oct 2023
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You could if you wanted to but im just saying something and thats not really worth the death penalty, or is it?
So we just have to accept the system as it is and not try to improve it? Oh boo thats also a very unoriginal idea, almost all ideas are unoriginal when it come to punishments.
Not just the legal system but society, we live in a society that really does not care about the people lesser in society, literaly try be a homeless guy and get away with a crime where a rich person can just pay the bond and be out!
Im happy you would rather be killed by a stranger than the state, especially crazy if you were innocent. but, I would argue that the person that killed you, if it was in cold blood, did it with malicious intent had a history of murder, killed you in a mass shooting with no remorse, I would protest the shit out of them being executed rather than spending life in prison. I know you'd probably be apposed to me doing so.
Actually no, I think people that like the death penalty are pretty much murderers in waiting. Why wait until you kill someone innocent?
Where exactly is the improvement when the state kills even more innocent people? Seems to me an improvement would be fewer innocent people put to death.
Ha ha ha that halrious. Because I want people like btk dead, I'm a murderer in waiting, how'd you figure that scooter?
Normal people don't want to kill innocent people just to kill some people they think deserve death.
Just so you know, I am that first guy. not the actual person but, what he embodies retributivism.
Please just look at this it a debate. https://youtu.be/XltuOU1A8Sk?si=HgX4ZyMDXvSB1WZi
Not interested, thank you.
retributivist, just find out what that means.
I know what retributivism is, and it perfectly fits into what you've written so far. Now explain to me: why shouldn't we be preemptively retributive with people like you?
Pre-emptily retributitve?
You want to equate my belief, that the punishment should fit the crime by saying "a killer deserves to face death to right the wrong" to being a killer my self? Then explain to you why you shouldn't have that view point? Pre-emptively?
Just making sure I understand you properly.
Everyone wants a punishment that fits the crime, but we disagree what punishment fits what crime. You want the state to kill people who you think deserve to be killed, but you also know that this will lead to innocent people being killed by the state, which is acceptable to you. How does that not make you complicit in the murder of innocents?
Why you shouldn't have what view point? The one that leads to innocent people being killed? Because it leads to innocent people being killed. Generally, any view point that leads to innocent people being killed is one you shouldn't have.
You know, if you just watched that video. You'd understand my view point and it also has the opposite opinion, its both arguments give by two people who are more able to explain it better than me. Im basically trying to understand it myself and I try to explain it with some confidence with every other person on lemmy.
The crime is? He kills his 3 kids. The punishment? Death, in this case. deserved and proportional, in my opinion, in this case!
Btk, same opinion. Greene River, same opinion.
You keep saying innocent people will be killed and you believe i want that to happen. I do not. you say "its inevitable" and I will say, that if you kill someone on false charges, it is wrong and it should only be applied to the cases I have stated previously, not a power just given out willy nilly.
I'm not actively calling for an extremely low bar death penalty justice system, I say, eye for an eye. Killed his kids, delete him from life and this other guy from OPs post the guy rapes and kills a woman, 26, no remorse, killing is like brushing teeth, delete him from our society, and because I belive that I'm a potential murderer? Geeze man, thats depression as a conclusion. mountains, mole hills or something something.
But the part that you don't seem to comprehend is simply that no matter how high you set the standards, you will kill innocent people. What if somehow evidence comes out that shows you got the wrong guy instead of the one who kills 3 kids? You're going to say "you just have to be sure", but there is literally no way. Nobody in the history of humanity has figured out how to do what you're proposing without killing innocent people, and I'm pretty sure nobody ever will.
So there are invariably only two options:
Unless you've found a magic solution that 100% ensures infallibility in the justice system, there is no third option. Understand now?
The guy is on video, he confessed to the police that it was premeditated, there were multiple witnesses. Where is this innocent person you keeping talking about being killed? I would argue its the fucking kids. I know you are talking over the whole judicial system but im arguing its these cases specifically.
I think you really enjoy telling other who they are, incorrectly I might add, think im a murderer in waiting? I would say you like to feel your superiority of the moral standard that retribution is equal to being a murderer yourself. Thats what I call delusional.
You be out here defending the lifes of the most disgusting humans on this planet and you think I'm the murderer? I call you an enabler, you would allow them to become "rehabilitated" in a system that relies on recidivism and just go on to kill again. Maybe you should think about all the people who left the prison just to kill again, their victim lay at your feet because you, obviously that is not true, but its your stupid logic.
And even in cases like this mistakes have been made before. But you obviously can't accept that, as your whole position would fall apart, so you instead talk about this way that will surely work that somehow nobody else came up with.
Also, don't act like killing a murderer somehow brings back the people he murdered. The only difference between locking them up for life and killing them is that the earlier leaves you the option of freeing them if it's proven your innocent, whereas the latter fulfills your bloodlust.
Mate, have fun calling me delusional, I don't care. It's pretty obvious you're a young kid stumbling upon these philosophical ideas for the first time, and you simply can't accept that the "simple and obvious" solution you're proposing is flawed. But since it feels right to you, it can't be wrong! And that's what I call bloodlust.
See, perfect example. I'm not "defending the lives of the most disgusting humans on the planet", I'm defending the lives of the innocent people your quest for revenge will kill as collateral damage. Because, spoiler alert, locking up a terrible murderer for the rest of their life will not allow them to murder. But you don't care that innocent people will die.
Show me the mistake in such a case as that? Please id love to see your fictitious case because if you show me cases where the person had a shit lawyer and died because of insufficient council or evidence that had been withheld by the prosecution or bias by the judge or jury based of false information then I would argue that that is a failure of the system through courrupt individual that uses it in inappropriate ways its not intended to be used and not proportional justice that i seek.
Yet again you make a stupid claim "like its gonna bring them back" are you dense? Are you purposely being obtuse? Not sure if you are or not.
Blood lust? Someone call the hyperbole police on this person and yes you are delusion equating my belief in proportional justice as a blood lust for the innocence imma bout to slay? That i would argue is simplistic. Oh so just because I found out what the idea behind my belief is all of a sudden im a petulant immature child?
You are the child in this point, labeling people casting your ideals on them without a serious conversation? Thats your immaturity, not understanding why a person would prefer their child murderer to not exist (and again specific to this case) is a perfectly rational response.
You literally are defending their ability to avoid proportional justice so they can either be "rehabilitated" to leave and possibly commit a much worse crime or spend vasts amounts of money to keep housing the worst people like some macabre collection to leer at.
I seek retribution not revenge. I seek a proportional sentence for the crime convicted of.
This bit got me the most lol Because, spoiler alert, locking up a terrible murderer for the rest of their life will not allow them to murder. But you don't care that innocent people will die.
Ahh yeah they do, people with life sentences don't care if they get time added, they gonna die there any way.... very very simple view there
And if you were paying any attention before you would understand that NO I DO care if innocent people die.