"Oh, this is calamity! Calamity! Oh no, he's on the floor!"
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Meanwhile On Grad
Documenting hate speech, conspiracy theories, apologia/revisionism, and general tankie behaviour across the fediverse. Memes are welcome!
What is a Tankie?
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Source https://lemmy.ml/post/48980289
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I literally asked "Do you believe Americans are immune to Russian propaganda?", which presupposes that Russian propaganda exists (because it exists, the article linked by the user there being an example) and that Americans are falling for it. Learn to read instead of inventing stuff that I didn't say.
Huh?
I can both recognise Russian propaganda and know that not everyone who spreads it is personally Russian.
If you can find those screenshots of Davel's Russian comments, I'd seriously like to see them. I came across people on Lemmy claiming even Dessalines could be Russian, yet there's no proof of that, even though he uses the same phrases as "the imperialist West" etc., his reddit comments from many years ago show he's from the US, his recordings on Youtube are in native US English, etc. He just ate up some of the weirder strains of Russian propaganda along with lots of other ideas (the sort of tankie ideology seen on Lemmy is primarily a US phenomenon, I believe a weird off-shoot of Cold War pro-USSR narratives). So I'm suspicious of this blanket conclusion that everyone who spreads pro-Russia, anti-west narratives is necessarily foreign to the US.
I studied Russian for a while, I've seen lots of Russian memes online, etc, but I have no idea what "вахтера" could mean?
Oh so you're allowed to whatabout and make up bullshit, but no-one else can?
You're literally whatabouting. "But what about the American victims of propaganda, how can you be sure Davel isn't one of them" you sad sack of shit and your brigading alts to make you look even remotely reasonable.
"I'm just asking questions" is genuinely so fucking tires rhetoric. No you're not. You're using questions to assert Davel isn't Russian.
What makes you believe he isn't Russian?
Oh wait, I wasn't allowed to ask questions, only you?
Really? That's all you have to say. Kinda reminds me of a JD Vance interview here actually. Instead of furthering the discussion anywhere, you go in with shitty whataboutism or other "just questions" and never even contribute to threads.
Is Davel "everyone"? Oh wait, perhaps Davel, Yogthos and other pathetic little Russian shills are all the same person, and because you're having a hard time keeping up "who you are" because you're everyone, you're also me, but have forgotten it?
Or perhaps you were exaggerating, since very clearly don't assume "everyone" who accidentally spreads Russian propaganda isn't Russian. But Davel is, I know that for a fact.
You can cry all you can but if you read his profile and even look up other profiles he's had with the same name and content, you can (if you're literate, but I think that won't include you, sorry) look at his profile.
Just like I said, you're a shitstirrer who got angry that Davel got talked about. This happens all the time on Lemmy. That's why everyone know what garbage heaps lemmy.ml and lemmygrad are. You know, the instances which Davel mods and speaks fluent Russian on?
There's massive intentional Russian propaganda being spread by Russia exactly on poorly moderated platform like Lemmy. And everytime you point it out you get one of you whiners goin "no they're actually American, definitely, they smell of the decadent capitalist West, just like comrade Lenin thought us here our motherland... no wait. I meant Nixon, and am of living in United States!"
Thanks for the laughs little вахтера
Man, saying "He's an American who fell for Russian propaganda" isn't denying the existence of Russian propaganda.
Correct.
So what the proof that Davel is American? How many Americans or people in general, do you know of, who have learned to speak fluent Russian in their adult years?
What's the proof that he's Russian? You haven't given any proof either, and claiming he as alts where he speaks fluent Russian isn't the same as providing proof of that. People can make any claim they want.
Combating Russian propoganda begins with people being skeptical, and that includes of you.
Literally everything he says and does.
But only skepticism towards Russia doing disinformation. It's not like if you were a person who was purposefully spreading Russian disinfo that you'd have a vested interest in literally always being "skeptical" towards anyone trying to catch you out in said disinfo?
No, of course not, what's the proof for that?
Its hilarious that you don't realise how utterly garbage your rhetoric is. It's like arguing a 12-year old irl :D
What's the proof that Vicky with three kisses was working for the British?
Combating Russian propaganda begins with calling it out for what it is, not sucking Putler's smegma-y cock every chance you get.
It's not more evidence that he's Russian than just a Russian shill living anywhere else. Do you think those people don't exist on the internet? The fact you talk about Russian propoganda relies on the fact they exist. If they didn't, what is the propoganda doing?
Lol. OK buddy.
Hold up. You're making the comparison of a Germany making fake Nazi messages to this? Doesn't that go against your point? The equivalent here is that he's an American being used by Russia to convert other Americans! What argument are you making?
Dude, saying that the only people who could speak favorably about Russia is letting them get away with spreading propoganda. If there's no risk that it's converting other people then we need not be weary of it. If we instead realize that it does have an effect and it has converted people, then it let's us combat the actual effects. You're arguing for being nieve.
Ah, so I'm equally as likely to be Ugandan, Russian or Australian, or whichever country from, despite having posted photographs of #Finnish so dogtags and having said I'm Finish.
Because prove that it's not as likely that I'm not Finnish. You can't. I'm just as likely to be from Uganda. There's just no way to know! ^/s
Yep. The fact you keep thinking you're good at this is hilarious to me. You do know that people who are shit at things often overestimate their skills, right? You know that's a fact, right? Oh wait... that joke might require introspection. :(
So Vicky with Three Kisses was undoubtedly a faithful German working for the Reich, right? You can't prove she wasn't!
Xdddd
Keep it coming I love it
"let us combat the actual effects of this thing I'm fervently defending while thinking it's not painfully obvious" Heheheheheheheheheheheh
Oh shit I have to renew my ventoline you're literally killing me
That would explain all your bullshit.
As far as I'm aware, he has not posted pictures of where he's from. It's most likely that he's American, because the most users are. It is incredibly unlikely that he's Ugandan. Sure, the probability isn't zero, but it's low.
Wow, you're actually an idiot! You won't admit how stupid your argument was, so you shift to something totally different! Wow, this is crazy. I'm done here, but feel free to keep going. I guess I should have taken the advice of "don't argue with idiots. They'll pull you down to their level and win with experience." I don't think you've won here. Based on the ratio, everyone sees how bad your shit stinks. However, you think you're winning. Just stay on the offensive, and provide no evidence, and it'll surely make people believe you're winning, right?
Why is it most likely?
Because... you believed so?
Well this is undoubtedly the most ironic thing I've read this year.
"This guy spreading purposeful Russian propaganda and suckling Putler's teat to every last inch is actually not a Russian, there's not even remote evidence he's a Russian and actually he's American and that means you should always s question support for the imperialist capitalist forces you remain bound to in your nations comrades! And btw, this is me being socially progressive and not a Marxist-Leninst moron"
Ruahahaha haha
"I'm done here"
No you're not lol. You're so mad and like severely on a mission that you definitely won't stop replying. You're so utterly utterly utterly pissed because I brought up Синдром Вахтёра but ofc you can't reply showing you know what I mean.
And when you pretend not to, it's kind of hilariously. I'd love to play poker with real money with you. Although I don't accept rubles.
I believe that the majority of Lemmy users are Americans (the majority of discourse is US-centred, non-English communities except German ones are effectively nonexistent).
Davel's rhetoric partly aligns with Russian propaganda, but its pseudo-leftist bent is not really found in Russian propaganda or in Russian popular discourse.
I again would ask you, if possible, to find the screenshots. I don't think it's impossible, I just think it's less likely than him being American. Solid evidence can decisively end this dispute.
Literally my first comment ITT was pointing out the article he linked is written by a pro-Trump blogger. If you think that was meant to be in any way a defense of Davel, that's just crazy.
The rest is random accusations with no heads or tails that I don't think can be meaningfully responded to. I have one alternative profile (now unused) which is linked in my profile description.
Oh hunny, you believing things isn't proof. :((
How many Americans you know of who learned to speak fluent Russian in their adult years?
You're pathetic.
You mean "rhetoric I won't address because it'd show how wrong I am, so I just go there to put in childish comments implying defense of Russia and how the US sucks"
This is literally like a teenage "philosopher" trying to argue how "water isn't actually wet".
Genuinely I've had good laughs and I was somewhat lonely tonight so thanks :DD
"Please find the screenshots you took of some lunatic Russian 4 years ago" yeah they're actually on my PC, but it shouldn't be hard for you to Google "davel lemmy" and see all the different accounts he has. Although since I've stated pointing it out, after he started evading me, he's also deleted the comments I've screenshot and shared.
Again thanks for the giggles
Oh hunny, the same is true for you. How the fuck can someone be so arrogant? You've provided no evidence and only made claims, and you want people to believe you, but also you're saying believing isn't proof. What? Are you stupid?
Oh because you're asserting random things with literally no rhetoric I behind them, or just saying "nuh-uh, fake news, fake news!"
I've followed Davel and friends for literally years. You can repeat yourself all you want, but it's not gonna make your rhetoric any better, and you're clearly unable to see it's quality compared to mine.
It rally would be absolutely trivial for Davel or anyone to prove they're American, but under the guise of "I don't wanna dox myself" you keep pretending it wouldn't. As if posting photos without exif or too much context is soooooo hard, right?
So nothing he says or does is evidence, but there's also no other data than what he says or does, so no data ever could prove to you he is actually Russian. Because you know you're lying.
Arrogance has to be earned, my little poo-pah
None personally, since I don't talk with Americans except on forums online, though obviously I've read texts by a number of them (scholarly writing on Russian language and literature) and have seen and interacted with them on Russian-learning communities online. If you find that to be relevant. Do you know Russian well enough to judge his fluency anyway?
I really don't believe you could look through my comment history, as you claimed, see my recent post with Semyon Skrepetsky's painting, and say I'm in any way a defender of Russia. It looks like you're just looking for enemies.
Lemmy isn't indexed on Google very well, and finding people's accounts that way is nigh impossible. I found his older inactive account on Lemmygrad and that's it, and there's no Russian there as far as I could see. Of course, maybe he deleted the comments in question, etc.
If you do run across the pics, even long after this discussion is over, don't hesitate to post them, I'll be thankful.
You've been very patient with this hostile git, commendable.
Yes, just looking for enemies. Just like Davel, who thinks there are "approximately zero Russian trolls on Lemmy" when he's active and mods same communities as Dessalines, who is one of the developers of Lemmy, and known to be a Russian Marxist-Leninist.
Perhaps Russian propaganda doesn't even exist, it's all just "progressive social media posts"? (This is the sort that makes me laugh, as if anyone even remotely politically literate would confuse "progressive social media posts" with authoritarian propaganda. I'm sure people do, as there are plenty of politically illiterate people. That's what Russian propaganda relies on, lol.
"Have you seen this Russian propaganda first hand" Uh, yeah, most definitely. Again, one would have to be politically illiterate not to have.
As I said, I've read through many of Dessalines' comments (on Lemmy and Reddit) at one point, and saw no indication he's anything other than American. Are both of these Russian speakers, according to you, or is the latter part just in reference to Davel?
Of course not. As I pointed out, once again, the very blog linked by Davel in OP's screenshot is by a self-admitted right-winger/pro-Trumper who has been reporting on the failures of Ukraine and "glorious advancements" of Russia for years, it could be a textbook example of the horseshoe theory. You don't have to explain to me that Davel is being disingenuous, he openly said he wants Russia to conquer Ukraine because Russia isn't imperialist, unlike the US, I don't need any additional convincing regarding him.
Yeah like I said this is the same thing that Davel did. Pretends there's no Russian presence on Lemmy, like arguing "water isn't wet".
The number one thing I've found is the hardcore refusal that any purposeful Russian propaganda or Russian accounts are on Lemmy. It's a hilariously clear sign of a вахтера
Sooo, your view is that Dessalines, Davel, Yoghtos and other Marxist-Leninist nuts are all just non-Russians accidentally perpetuating Russian propaganda which actually isn't even provably Russian propaganda? You know, the explicit Marxist-Leninist politics defending Russia, blaming Ukraine, etc?
Yeah that's not hilarious at all. :D
Keep going with this, you'll soon surely wear out my stamina of... being entertained by you. :DDD
Oh man I should reduce smoking you caused me to almost puke because I laughed so hard I started coughing and nearly couldn't breathe
It's really not that hard to prove you're not Russian either. Unless I just happen to be a Russian with finish dogtags and a Finnish calendar just conveniently by me for that reason while actively speaking against Putlerists.
How likely do you think that is?
My guy, Yogthos has said many times that he grew up in Russia. What’s to be gained by pretending to be someone other than one’s self for years on social media?
Get a grip on yourself.
Oh more "fake news fake news, Russian would never do organised disinformation and the fact that those accounts align 100% with Russian propaganda doesn't mean anything!"
Oh man what did Vicky with three kisses gain from pretending to be on the side of the Axis?
I mean, weren't you the guy saying we should be actually careful about propaganda? But now you're gonna pretend that organised Russian propaganda on sites literally built by them don't have any at all, and even if there is why would any account spreading Russian propaganda want to pretend that they're actually American?
Oh such a mystery, don't you think? Just can't grasp my head around the motivations here... Soooooo haaard.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/why-are-russian-trolls-spreading-online-hoaxes-in-the-u-s
https://www.csis.org/analysis/russian-bot-farm-used-ai-lie-americans-what-now
https://arxiv.org/html/2507.23699v1
And ofc
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_disinformation
What you do t realise is that by denying literally every criticism of purposeful Russian disinfo, you're literally aligning 100% with Russian propaganda.
Despite there being more than enough evidence for concrete proof of it.
So, there's absolutely 0% chance that Davel, Desssalines, Yogthos and other have anything to do with Russian web brigades?
0% chance? So then, those are all your accounts, and you know that for certain? Which would mean sort of admitting to the opposite, because if you're a Ruski with several accounts all spreading Russian propaganda, it's kind of hard to argue there's literally 0% chance it's going on, isn't it?
That's like being in the lift with someone else, just one other person, hearing a loud wet fart. You know it wasn't you, but then you look at the other guy and while the stink keeps growing and brown goo comes out of his trouser legs, he'll still argue "it wasn't me".
This is why I find this so entertaining :D
AI hallucinations are a waste of time.
You're still ascribing me ideas that I didn't say or even outright denied (particularly this nonsense: accidentally perpetuating Russian propaganda which actually isn’t even provably Russian propaganda), and you're not even trying to corrobate your previous claims. It's actually crazy how hard you're ignoring the things I wrote even on points where we agree. You do have to understand that US is a very different country from yours and you can't project all of your local issues onto it. US's relationship to and perspective on Russia is different from yours in Finland, and just as their right-wingers could have latched onto one strain of Russian propaganda, so could their Marxists; you likely won't find clear parallels to their logic in your home country due to different history, political climate, proximity to Russia, etc. But you have to understand that in different countries different political positions can arise due to different circumstances.
That sounds very worrying, I hope you're just joking here.
Um, what? Did I say anything regarding your own nationality? Why in the world would I suspect you're Russian, why would you have to prove to anyone you're not?
You have some issues bigger than some pro-Russian useful idiots on a small forum. I won't reply anymore because I don't want to make you puke, I wish you all the best.
Oh like how you're joking with this inane "nuh uh, you can't prove water is wet" thing?
Your rhetoric is hilarious. Let's go over a bit of it. So you're grabbing tons of hallucinated implications from my text, while saying that when you write things, it's purely 100% prescriptive? (Yes, you're gonna have to Google what that means, unfortunate, isn't it?)
"I'm quitting not because it's so hard to even argue water isn't wet, but because I so sympathetic to people laughing at me"
Genuinely, like, you can't proofread your own comments or you just don't see how ridiculous they are? :D
So, again "some pro-Russian useful idiots". What proof do you have they're not agents of the Russian government, and are American instead? Oh, did you perhaps hallucinate that? Awww :((
I'm no stranger to being irritable and combative, but I'm gonna have to ask you to cool off and take a break from this particular conversation.
Jesus, did it struck a nerve or something? The other user just asked how you could be so sure, plus their nationality is not even that relevant, because they're spouting Russian propaganda anyway whether they are actually Russian or from anywhere else.
Because it's not hard to Google "davel lemmy" and see a dozen accounts of him speaking fluid Russian.
How many Americans you know of whom learned to speak and write Russian in their adult years?
It clearly did. For the Russians on the platform. "Nah uh, we're good liars!"
Ruahahaha. Russians might be decent in chess but the rhetoric is ridiculous and entertaining. Although I can understand that this sort of "water isn't actually wet" discourse is "complicated" by US or Russian literacy standards.
It's still weird that you're so attached to the notion of their nationality, but you do you I guess.
Oh I'm not. I know he's Russian. Doesn't matter to me, personally, what nationality he is from. But unless you're a politically illiterate and like generally illiterate person who has somehow managed to avoid all news in the past idk, pick whatever time length you want to, you'd know that Russians definitely have a vested interest in manipulating opinions online. (Because the 'special military operation' isn't really going so well, is it? :D More Ruskis for the meatgrinder.)
You don't think that if you actually knew someone was Russian and actually pushing Russian propaganda, that you have a moral duty to do something about it? Why not? Do you think Russia is right and should be allowed to continue their crimes on humanity? Because... I don't. I think crimes on humanity are wrong, and I think a fair few people, and the most important international organisations (and laws) agree with me here. Weird, huh? Perhaps you're just amoral?