cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/48165009
this post was submitted on 14 Jun 2026
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- etc.
Why? Because otherwise (AFAIK), screen readers will try to read them out as actually words instead of spelling them
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Socialist orgs in Europe are pretty much all anti-nato. Liberals are not the left, they are the center-right. The only place in the world that calls liberals "left" is amerikkka.
I assure you that no org nor individual with an anti-nato position thinks Russia is "the biggest threat". The position is held by all of these orgs because US imperialism is the biggest and most dangerous threat to the left in the world responsible for many tens of millions of socialist deaths and has been ever since ww2.
I'm not even sure why you think socialists would care whether european billionaires, amerikkkan billionaires or russian billionaires get to exploit the working class. The nationalist battles over borders just determine who gets to exploit which members of the working class. What matters to socialists is who is harming and preventing socialist movements the most. The position of socialists is that the battles over borders should stop, period, not that one side is better than any other. Taking one side over the other is ultimately just throwing your hat in with one group of billionaires over the other instead of acknowledging the problem causing this is the entire international system.
USA is a bigger joke than Russia. Could not even start invading Iran. Got it's shit rocked, and went back crying to mommy Israel.
and regarding all the other shit takes from them have one simple explanation: polish "left"-lib
Yeah it's clearly a nationalist position that lacks self-awareness that it's nationalism. I just kinda wanted to steer through that without an accusatory "you're a nationalist" line that would only provoke extreme defensiveness.
My next step is usually to ask what happens if their country goes socialist tomorrow. Who are the immediate enemies? Who are the immediate new potential trading partners? Where do they get weapons and ammunition from to defend their revolution?
The answers to these questions most people can usually get correct by themselves, without me pointing them out. And these answers lead people to why anti-nato is the position of socialists in europe, and also why socialists in europe are not explicitly anti-russia either. The situation for socialists is not the same situation faced by liberals.
Dang I banned too early 😔
Is all good, anyone questioning it can run through those questions themselves.
I also like to ask people where Cuba gets their weapons, ammunition and fuel from. Also Burkina Faso, Venezuela, Bolivia (under MAS), Iran (who supplies palestinian resistance), DPRK, etc etc. Some of which they'll object to being mentioned in the anti-imperialist camp at all but the question still remains, where do they get their weapons, supplies, fuel and other essentials from and what happens if that place suddenly didn't exist tomorrow because nato magically eliminated it or whatever the fuck goes through these people's heads.
Every single anti-imperialist group in the world requires them to survive. Thus the position is quite complex for anti-imperialists, even those that don't necessarily approve of all actions occurring. But needless to say, nato is certainly the biggest threat to us in the world. Nobody has to like the current situation but understanding the geopolitical reality we exist in is essential.
As for the ban, maybe premature, I try to teach even the baby leftists and assume naivity. I'm often proven wrong about being so patient though.
Agreeing with you, don't have much else to say.
Should have seen that you were trying to do so and since they were in an OK discussion mode and not actually shitlib-y. It's just that my tolerance for that stuff is quite low TBH and I lack the capacity to engage with such patience as you (or god forbid on such a level as Cowbee <3)