-28
this post was submitted on 03 Jun 2026
-28 points (33.7% liked)
Memes
55864 readers
618 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 7 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Russia is not economically dominating other countries, though, and neither is BRICS. Secondly, focusing on export of capital as the dominant measure of an imperialist economy does not mean a country can only export either capital or commodities. Further, earlier forms of imperialism existed, such as the Roman Empire, what I described is merely imperialism as it exists today.
When you are talking about "forms of control," what you're really describing is imperialism proper, the economic extraction, and then ways imperialism is maintained through soft and hard power. Russia is not economically plundering other countries. It is at war, but it is not an imperialist country.
This isn't me being disingenuous, it's me being principled in how I analyze the world.
Ok. Then explain how the Roman Empire was an empire, before Capitalism even existed. Capitalism is a relatively recent addition to human history. Whereas imperialism is by far one of the oldest.
Limiting your definition of what it is, exclusively to Capitalism, ignores 99% of our collective existence. It's not like all the other forms of imperialism ceased to exist once Capitalism came along...it just came up with a new form of dominance to use.
And for the record, Russia maintains economic dominance over plenty of countries in its sphere of influence. Belarus. Georgia. Moldova. Kazakhstan. Kyrgyzstan. Armenia. Etc. All are heavily influenced by Russian economic policies.
But, as I said... that's just one form of dominance that imperialist nations use to expand and maintain their control over other countries. Russia just uses the other two I mentioned, far more often. Putin obviously prefers the more old-school imperialism to the new-school variety employed by the US.
But, it's still imperialism all the same.
The Roman Empire had a different, earlier mode of production, and as such the imperialism of its era was different. I am speaking about imperialism as it is relevant today, no country has a similar mode of production to the Roman Empire.
As for Russia "economically dominating," you're really just saying Russia has economic power within countries it is near. This is not the same as systemically stealing all or most of their surplus the way western countries do to the global south.
OMG. So...."it's not the same when Russia does it"? Lol! Buddy, your argument is ridiculously transparent.
I get it. You have a favorite. Your favorite is always right, and can do no wrong. But on some level, you have to understand that you're full of shit...right? You're just coming up with exceptions to all your own rules, so that Russia never qualifies for criticism.
It's almost insulting that you think I'm stupid enough to accept that argument. It's also pretty embarrassing that you aren't embarrassed to use it.
Russia is neither similar to the ancient Roman Empire nor to contemporary western imperialism. You haven't actually explained why, other than the fact that they are at war, and I already explained that war itself is not imperialism. Russia is not super exploiting countries for super profits, and in fact it is assisting countries like Burkina Faso in expelling imperialist countries like France. It isn't that Russia can't do wrong, it's that it is not imperialist, and isn't doing imperialism.
Russia certainly isn't "my favorite," it's far from a socialist country. It does not need to be socialist to be worthy of critical support, however, in its role in contesting imperialism.
So now you're just going to claim that "it's not the same kind of imperialism"? That may be true from a semantic point of view. But it's still imperialism. Imperialism is like fascism. Every Empire does their own customized version. They just all share certain underlying characteristics that define it as imperialism.
The main defining characteristic of imperialism, is dominance. Control. The Empire in question needs control over it's vassal states. What form that control takes, or what combination of various tactics they use, is like a spectrum. But the basic common denominator is always domination.
Now, if you try and tell me that Russia isn't trying to control it's neighbors by any means necessary, then I will know 100%, that you not arguing in good faith.
That's literally been Putin's entire agenda since he first took power. Everything he's done for the last 2+ decades has been to claw back control over all the satellite states that used to "belong" to Russia. Every country that declared its independence after the fall of the Soviet Union, has had a target on their backs this entire time. His entire worldview is built around the idea that "Back when Russia was Great...we controlled all this land. It ALL belongs to Russia."
Except the historical reference he's making, is also when Russia was an Empire in the classical sense of the term. He's not a Socialist. He's a dictator, who wants his Empire restored to its former glory.
No, I'm saying Russia isn't imperialist, period. You're redefining imperialism from a concrete, analyzed, material system into a vibe, an emotion, a gut-feeling, because you want Russia to be evil. That's why you try to redefine it as something incredibly particular and formless, impossible to definitively nail down, but the problem there is that if we can't nail it down, then we can't analyze it.
At the end of the day, Russia is not getting wealthy off the backs of the global south. The west is, and Russia is working against that system. It may be for its own self-interest, sure, but fighting imperialism does not make a country imperialist. And yes, Putin isn't a socialist. He's a nationalist, over capitalist country that is not at the imperialist stage like the west is.
Lol! I'm not "redefining Imperialism". That's literally how Imperialism is defined. I don't know where you're getting your definition from, but it isn't correct. In fact, it's pretty intellectually dishonest. How things are defined is based entirely on their "common characteristics". If something possesses all the common characteristics of a certain group...it belongs in that group. That's just how it works.
You can't just claim that something isn't imperialism, just because you don't like what that word implies. You are ignoring the fact that Russia has all the common characteristics of imperialism, in order to claim that "it isn't imperialism. Period." That's not how it works.
I mean, if you want to get really specific, and dig down into the common characteristics of Putin's leadership style, and how he's running the country right now...I have some bad news for you. He's a fascist.
He has all the common characteristics of a fascist dictator. He's an oligarch with almost complete control over the Russian government and its economy. He has an oversized fascination with Russia's mythical "Historic Greatness". He emphasizes military strength as the cornerstone of Russia's power. He scapegoats minorities, foreign influence and societal weaknesses, all as barriers to restoring Russia to its previous glory. Not to mention, he's a chauvinist with delusions of grandeur.
He checks all the boxes. But, go ahead...tell me how none of that actually applies to him...all because you've decided that sharing all those common characteristics still doesn't mean that definition applies. Period.
You are redefining imperialism. I'm following imperialism as it was first analyzed by John A. Hobson as it was arising in its modern form, then correctly carried forward and codified by Lenin, then advanced to the modern day by people like Nkrumah and Cheng Enfu. Imperialism is characterized by the following:
-The presence of monopolies which play a decisive role in economic life.
-The merging of bank capital with industrial capital into finance capital controlled by a financial oligarchy.
-The export of capital as distinguished from the simple export of commodities.
-The formation of international monopolist capitalist associations (cartels) and multinational corporations.
-The domination and exploitation of other countries by militaristic imperialist powers, now through neocolonialism.
-The territorial division of the whole world among the biggest capitalist powers.
These are the mechanisms by which imperialism functions today, and they do not apply to Russia. Russia is largely a commodity exporter, with a paltry sum of finance capital, and no colonies nor neocolonies. Russia is not economically exploiting the global south, either. It is not colonial, nor neocolonial, nor imperialist.
Russia is governed by nationalists. Fascist is cutting it a bit, but I won't hotly contest that like I would the farcical claims that it is imperialist. Fascism is best understood as capitalism in decay, the logic of colonialism applied domestically. Russia doesn't quite fit that, though it is squarely nationalist and capitalist, and certainly not imperialist.
Lol! So you're using a "redefined" definition of Imperialism, written by people who don't want to be defined as imperialists?
Just tossing thousands of years worth of actual human history out the window and proclaiming all previous definitions of imperialism, obsolete? That's the definition you're going with, and that's it? Period.
Obviously there's no point in continuing this conversation. You have your preconditioned biases, and you have no intention of using any critical thought to question whether they are valid. Got it.
No, I'm using the original and developed understanding of imperialism as a stage in capitalism, advanced by people actively fighting against it. Lenin famously overthrew Tsarist Russia, established socialism, and got rid of Russia's imperial holdings, after writing Imperialism, the Current Highest Stage of Capitalism. Kwame Nkrumah was a Ghanaian that fought against neocolonialism, and wrote Neocolonialism, the Last Stage of Imperialism, and Cheng Enfu is one of China's top economists and theorists of neo imperialism.
Prior forms of pre-capitalist imperialism are not at all what we observe today. The Roman Empire no longer exists. Imperialism as a stage in capitalism is the only form of imperialism that exists at present, which is why we need to analyze it as such. I am thinking about imperialism critically, that's why I analyze it as a material system and study it, rather than reduce it to a vibe. Do you have any objections to the Marxist understanding of imperialism? Why do you believe the vibe-based understanding is better?
Ok. Again, I'm going to have to stop you right here, and call bullshit on your entire argument.
You cannot claim that this interpretation is both "the original" definition AND the "developed understanding of imperialism as a stage in capitalism, advanced by people actively fighting against it", at the same time. That's just bullshit.
The original definition predates Capitalism itself, and even further predates Socialism. It's one thing to claim that a developed understanding of imperialism now includes the way Capitalism influences imperialism...but you can't claim that imperialism no longer exists without Capitalism.
That is simply incorrect. And thousands of years of human history attest to that. You cannot just hand-wave off all the previous understanding of what defines imperialism, just because you've defined a new tactic for how imperialists dominate other nations. That is absolutely absurd.
The fact that you don't see how flawed that entire argument is, either means you don't understand what you're saying, or you don't care that it makes no sense.
The broad characteristics of imperialism as a stage in capitalism were observed by Hobson. Lenin then codified it and created the basis of the theory, that still holds up today. As conditions have evolved, Nkrumah, Cheng Enfu, and more have carried this same basic analysis to modern, contemporary conditions, such as the transition from European supremacy to Statesian supremacy.
The Roman Empire had a system of imperialism that, in function, is entirely different from modern imperialism. They could just as easily be understood as entirely different words, as they function entirely differently, same with early tribal communism and future, highly industrialized communism.
I'm not handwaiving history, I am definitively stating that the imperialist stage of capitalism only came to be in the turn of the 20th century. It may be similar in some ways to previous forms of imperialism, but these forms no longer exist and are relics of history.
My argument isn't flawed, you're more than capable of comprehending it. Again, do you have any objections to the Marxist understanding of imperialism? Why do you believe the vibe-based understanding is better?
Lol! None of that has anything to do with "redefining Imperialism" itself. That is talking specifically about Capitalism. The two concepts can and do exist independently from each other.
I even agree with the concept that Capitalism will always trend towards imperialistic ambitions. That's a fundamental aspect of how Capitalism functions. And I also agree that the way Capitalists will utilize Imperialism is different from more classical examples.
But when you start telling me that "it doesn't count as imperialism unless it adheres to only those specific characteristics...then I call bullshit. You can absolutely still have Imperialism without requiring all those criteria that are specific to Capitalism.
And I absolutely stand by my assertion that Russia is engaged in their own form of imperialism. That definition hasn't changed. Not even according to the people you keep quoting. Their analysis only expands on that definition to include how Capitalism impacts its use.
Your definition of "imperialism" as it relates to Russia is so vague it would also apply to the Statesian north annexing the confederacy, or Burkina Faso kicking France out. All you really mean is that Russia is an active player on the global stage, but that isn't inherently a bad thing. Imperialism as a system is a well-understood stage in capitalist development, that itself is bad, and is the biggest obstacle to socialism and human progression. Not Russia, which is actively working against said imperialist system.
Again, Russia is not exploiting the global south, and is actively working in the interests of the global south in contesting imperialism as a global system.
It's not "so vague". It's literally the definition of imperialism.
How is that vague? And how does that not describe invading and occupying Ukraine, Georgia, and Chechnya? Or, engaging in political interference campaigns all across Europe and Central Asia?
You can pretend all you want, that these things "didn't happen", or "don't mean what they mean"...but that would be completely disingenuous. Russia is an Imperialist state, which aims to expand its influence and territory, by any means necessary. Whether that's economic influence, political interference, or direct military aggression.
Every single part of that definition applies.