this post was submitted on 19 May 2026
83 points (98.8% liked)
solarpunk memes
6044 readers
3 users here now
For when you need a laugh!
The definition of a "meme" here is intentionally pretty loose. Images, screenshots, and the like are welcome!
But, keep it lighthearted and/or within our server's ideals.
Posts and comments that are hateful, trolling, inciting, and/or overly negative will be removed at the moderators' discretion.
Please follow all slrpnk.net rules and community guidelines
Have fun!
founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I'm biased against urban agriculture since it caused all of the problems humanity has been beset with for the last 10,000 years. Maybe if there was some kind of check against a city that starts using its massive resources to be predatory on less defensible communities as they always have.
That's... an extremely questionable analysis.
What's the most obvious question?
Either that cities have only really been around for ~5000 years, and that's with a generous definition of 'city' and a very broad swathe of the world not having cities entirely for thousands of years after that; or that rural and agrarian-dominated societies historically have experienced most of the same core issues that urban-dominated civilizations have.
The problems shared by cultures according to historical records are the problems of cities I'm talking about. Whether you would call them cities or not, among the fertile crescent civilizations there were definitely empires and there have been empires ever since. The written records history is based on are more modern than either empires or agriculture. I struggle to think of any issue which exists in my lifetime which was not caused in some way by the effects of empires.
Agriculture is the enabling factor for empires, so in my opinion agriculture must be practiced in a deliberate way which prevents the formation of empires. To this end I think people living intentionally in agrarian communities which minimize the burdens of regular life is less likely to plant the seeds of caste and hierarchy than a community in which people are alienated from the influence of their labor or have weaker connections to the people sustaining their lives.
You do realize, though, that historical records cover non-agricultural and non-imperial societies, right?
... I struggle to think of any condition, positive or negative, that exists in our lifetime which was not caused in some way by the effects of what you call 'empires'.
Agriculture is the enabling factor for empires, because agriculture is the enabling factor for reliable human existence in most areas. Pastoralism has created empires, and even hunter-gathering in some very exceptionally bountiful regions. As soon as populations become geographically and demographically stable enough to form long-term relations with one another, imbalances form; and without ideological preconceptions against hierarchy, so too do hierarchies form.
Agrarian communities and cultures, historically speaking, are often very hierarchical, and heavily conformist to boot. You're imagining a very urban and modern worldview as transplanted wholesale into distinctly urban-and-modernity-hostile material conditions. You talk as though stronger connections with people is a kumbaya moment, but stronger connections with people is very often more Jante's Law than Friendship is Magic.
The historical record doesn't cover any culture at all which does not in some way have to deal with agricultural and imperial societies, even if those cultures are resisting these forces.
Exactly my point.
Agriculture is not the enabling factor of human existence in most areas. Agriculture is the enabling factor for settlements of many people in most areas. Humans populated the entire Earth prior to agriculture.
Again, exactly my point. Agriculture is the thing enables hierarchies like this. Personal agrarian community is a compromise to me because we already have people to support who wouldn't survive a transition to a system we know hierarchy can't proliferate, which is hunting and gathering. I think civilization is possible (however unlikely) only at the most personal level, and every step beyond that personal level we see the consequences of empires.