this post was submitted on 18 May 2026
20 points (63.2% liked)
Memes
55829 readers
895 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 7 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
QinShiHuangsSchlong already responded pretty well to your sources, which are frankly pretty terrible. I'll attempt to address the argument itself.
What is the "self-organized working classes?" Why do you draw a distinction between the proletariat organizing state power, and the "self-organizing" proletariat? I assume you mean unions and the like, but these take on very different contexts depending on the system they find themselves in.
This is metaphysics. You're taking a handful of fascist settler colonies, inter imperialist organizations, imperialist countries, and then one nationalist anti-imperialist state and one socialist anti-imperialist state, in order to equate them all. This is horrendously dishonest. Independent unions in, say, the US are organizing to contest the brutal exploitation of the capitalist system. China on the other hand has the largest federation of unions in the world, and is a socialist state, thus "independent" unions are contesting both this broader federation of unions and the socialist state itself. These are entirely different circumstances that you paint as equal.
Except this isn't the case of every state you listed, just some of them. You listed cases where this is indisputably true alongside cases where this is false and used that as evidence alone.
This is really where your entire argument rests on, the hope that people will not actually look beyond surface-level comparison to understand the complexity and context that fundamentally makes these cases entirely different.