I guess for this post I'm just coming here to talk a little bit about my health problems and maybe do a little ego preservation by shifting some blame off of me and my poor decisions.
Anyway, I'm 24 and for the past 6 months or so I've been visiting a few different doctors trying to figure out these cardiovascular issues that I've been having.
I remember last November being suddenly woke up by a sudden intense squeezing my chest, like someone was gripping my heart and manually beating it. It scared the hell out of me and I went to the ER at 3am. I get there, I'm fine, I tell them that I stopped feeling that sensation but I was so scared by it I wanted a doctor to tell me I wasn't dying. I wasn't... Good. They give me some meds to calm down my heart if it does it again, and then some beta blockers to help me sleep.
Fast forward a few months and I've gotten a test from the cardiologist and it looks like I'm all good. My heart is fine I just need to sleep more and worry less. The issue is that my symptoms haven't really improved all that much and in terms of affects on my extremeties I'm seeing greater and greater amounts of vascular visibility, discoloration of my finger nails and I'm still having infrequent chest discomfort.
I mention this multiple times to them. Yet still they tell me that I'm young and the test didn't reveal anything so I'm just worrying too much. I visit again a few weeks later and it's the same shit.
Anyway, I'm not a doctor although maybe I should have tried to visit a different specialist sooner. It wasn't until about two weeks ago when I see a massive varicose vein pop out of my calf and I realize oh I should probably talk to a vein specialist.
I go, my leg veins are dilated, it's still early stages so it's not that bad. I've lost a lot of weight over the past year or so (about 20kg), quit cigarettes, and overall my lifestyle trends towards much healthier. More of the same and managing the condition should be relatively doable.
Yet now I'm here lying in bed frustrated. Not only at the doctors but the messaging we have around health as though it's a foregone conclusion that you'll have it when you're young and then managing it is something of concern for your later years.
I know this foolishness and error of my thinking, and I know the immense privilege of mine to have come to take on that viewpoint, but man does it piss me off everytime I think back about any health issues, covid, or other things when people just shrug about the potential impacts because oh your young and your body is strong.
It makes me so regretful and spiteful because now I have a health condition which I shouldn't have developed had I made better health decisions in the past. I wish people would encourage better stewardship to your own body before it becomes a problem.
Anyway, if you have any encouragement to offer me I'd really appreciate it. I'm having trouble sleeping and this post was a way for me to vent some of those emotions. I'm far from home which I'm grateful for because at least I'm not paying for this in the US, but that also means I'm far from a lot of my support.
Thanks and I know this account is new but I've really appreciated this forum over the years.
Yeah I've been getting tests done over the past few months. I found it frustrating because the cardiologist didn't offer any tips about who to talk to if in having these other symptoms (vascular issues) if it wasn't related to the heart.
They just assumed I'm in my own head.
"There might just not be a reason to worry or much to be done."
No offense but this is the same thing I was pushing back against. Rapid deterioration of blood flow in the extremities is an issue because it's falls into the criteria of serious or actively getting worse. I understand it's not their speciality but I mean, they are a heart doctor and should be able to point me to someone who can help.
Anyway, yeah my heart situation has improved dramatically. I'm off the meds; they were just a thing to take as needed. I think it's all downhill from here so I'm feeling positive.
Well the cardiologist didn't give you any tips about who to talk to, because they didn't do a full assessment of your other problem. A given symptom could have any number of causes and before sending to a specialist, it is required to go through a certain amount of due diligence. You don't just get sent to a specialist because your problem happens to involve a certain body system.
For example "my skin is turning yellow!" might sound like a problem for dermatologist, but jaundice (yellow skin) is usually caused by a liver problem. There are all sorts of liver problems, some of which have special specialists. And a liver problem could be secondary to another problem somewhere else. For example a number of disorders of red blood cells can screw up your liver. So maybe you need a hematologist. And of course there are various Hepatitises that might need help from Infectious Disease. Or it could be a side effect of a medication, drug or other chemical exposure... You see? It isn't responsible for someone to just make willy-nilly suggestions which will send you up the garden path, waste your time that could be spent on something useful, and itself erode trust in the system because you were sent running around on a wild goose chase to doctors who took one look at you and said "why the hell are you here? I can't help you."
You primary/family/main doctor/NP is the person to bring those concerns to, and they are the one who should do the initial assessment and if they can't deal with it themselves, send you to someone who can.
And actually, without going into detail, I have seen a few problems caused when doctors stepped "out of their lane" and tried to give some advice where they should have not. There can be substantial confusion; that's the most polite way I can put it. You don't want to be the victim of one of those.
Did the cardiologist say that to you?
Do you have a specific diagnosis in mind you think is being missed? Or an idea of what kind of health problem you have? Because it sounds to me like you had a few episodes of chest pain without an established cause, and then later you found a varicose vein. These are both perfectly common normal things even for younger people. You have seen what sounds like several different medical providers involved and nobody can find anything alarming.
(Once I went to Emergency services because I thought I was having a heart attack but I was just having heart burn. Boy, they don't call it that for nothing! It really hurt. I felt I was rudely treated in that situation because the doctor thought I was "wasting" his precious time on my bullshit not-a-problem. They didn't have to act in that way to me. But at the end of the day, it's better that I was not having a heart attack.)
What do you think should be done about your varicose veins? These are very common, many people get them. For most people, their biggest complaint is cosmetic. There is not any good surgical/pharmacological treatments as far as I am aware. Try not to stand up or sit in a chair for long stretches of time. You can elevate your feet to above the level of the heart sometimes. Compression stockings if you like. Moisturize your skin. Keep not smoking and getting more exercise.
Here are a couple of pages about varicose veins. Shorter Varicose veins - NHS ; Longer Varicose veins and spider veins
So again the question is: What would make you feel better taken care of?
You got a real talent for making someone worried about their health feel good. Expert talent. I hope you get payed for being a jackass.
Yeah they did say that actually. So your sarcastic remark about that is precisely what they said. Also can you read the text? Have you had heartburn? Does it feel like your heart not beating correctly? It doesn't. Don't presume idiocy on my part to same extent that you assume I might not know what I'm talking about. The specialist should suggest going to a GP if that's the obvious go to wisdom.
Goddamn, doctors and you (if you are one or just carry water for this bullshit It doesn't matter) act like the bureaucracy of a hospital is easy to navigate or understand. Please go ahead! Diagnose me! Ask me to diagnose myself again! I said in the post I've erred in my approach but lemme say it again "I'm not a goddamn doctor". I didn't ask to see a specialist, that's who I was referred to after discussing the symptoms with the GP at that particular hospital. Did he do a test? No. Should he have? Probably I don't know.
If someone shows up and the tests you ran show things are fine, maybe you as an experienced medical professional should tell that to your patient. "Go get some general tests it doesn't look like it's related to heart" All I did was say something was still messed up and told it's in my head.
Take a goddamn step off your pedestal and try to understand how people act when they're unsure and don't know what to do. All I did in this post was malign the way people assume things about young people not having issues. Don't presume I'm an asshole just because you like to be one.
It was a long time ago but I definitely felt like my heart was stopped working properly. I felt like I was going to die. That's why I went to the emergency. I was trying to share a quite similar story by way of empathy but for some reason you take it as hostile.
Well I have tried asking you a number of questions to clarify but instead of answering, you also get mad and say things like "Ask me to diagnose myself again!". So you don't like it when people try to establish where a mutual understanding might exist. You don't like it when someone tries to explain the logic being used on the other side. You don't like it when questions regarding your own goals are asked.
Honestly, most people can figure out that if a specialist said they are fine, that at some point in the future, they will need to return to medical care for some reason. And that the cardiologist wouldn't be the appropriate person in your case.
No I am explaining it to you in a a general way (because it is different from place to place) so you might understand what the barriers you are facing. But you are not interested in that, you would prefer to feel victimized by everybody.
No they shouldn't. What's a "general test"? There is no such thing as "a general test" which is why nobody has advised you to do that. And a test that is meant to investigate a symptom wouldn't be "general" anymore anyway, it would be "specific".
And again it would be very wrong for a cardiologist to just think of some random other tests and tell you to tell another doctor to run them. That would be dangerous. They are only supposed to discuss their own areas of expertise.
If the specialist says you are fine, you go back to the GP and decide together if it warrants more investigation. Sometimes they can go up a ladder of trying one thing or another.
Did I say that? And the cardiologist, did they say you were in your head? I think you are mind reading. I do that sometimes too. Like you, I suck at it. Need to break the habit.
If someone is explaining something to you, it doesn't mean they think you are stupid, it just means they think you might benefit from knowing something. Most people do not know exactly what is your pre existing knowledge so they might tell you things you already know by mistake. You find this offensive and patronizing. OTOH, you are annoyed by questions which are meant to find out abut what you know. You seem to be extremely unfamiliar with the basic process of the medical system. So people who have tried to help you have not explained basic things like roles and systems. (Or they tried to but there was some barrier to it.) This has led for you to have expectations that were not realistic. And probably expectations which were not very clear since I have asked twice already what could have happened to make you feel properly taken care of and it seems to just upset you.
Well since everyone who tried to help you is a jackass, eventually you might start to figure out what the common denominator is there. I think if you ask at the beginning of visits, or if you get sent for a test or to another doctor, "What should I expect?" then listen to the answer, and in addition to any clarifications you have, follow with "and what happens after that?" then you would probably be less confused about the whole thing.
"I was trying to share a quite similar story by way of empathy, but for some reason you take it as hostile"
Assuming you are earnest here, this is why your story came off that way to me. Your framing in your comment appears as though your usage of the pronoun "I" is one where you take on the mantle of the one you're speaking to, in this case me. Look to your prelude to the story; It is not framed in a way that suggests this is your experience. "You have seen what sounds like several different medical providers involved and nobody can find anything alarming" followed by your aside. This suggests that the following aside is a rhetorical "taking on the mantle of" the other speaker. Perhaps, I shouldn't assume that, but I think given what I listed here you should take note with your framing as I work to improve on my seeming error.
Furthermore, given our earlier interaction I don't think you understand the influence from the previous discussion well. I'm sharing a personal story and interaction about my subjective experience and you asked for evidence to prove that I'm justified in that feeling. Did you do this? Did you do that? appeared to me as bad faith sea-lioning given the framing. It wasn't presented in a way which affirmed my experience and provided helpful tips like you're now saying was your intention. The essence of my post was that "man, I wish I took better care of myself and that people don't use age as a framing metric for why something isn't an issue." Being told that "your organ is healthy and reveals no issues stemming from it" is sufficient and more effective messaging as it doesn't appeal to something that may be irrelevant.
"Honestly most people can (italicized) figure out that if a specialist..." I listened to their instructions took the medicine topically as instructed, and saw no reduction in symptoms. This isn't me returning for some reason, it's explicitly because the doctor I was referred to suggested this adjustments which didn't appear to have the impact desired. I don't find it unreasonable to go back to talk to the doctor that prescribed you the medicine and lifestyle changes to discuss the insufficiency. This is condescending language by the way, but I imagine that since our discussion went sour I won't hold it against you. That's silly and fruitless given my own hostile language. If the cardiologist believes I should go back the GP at this point, then he should suggest that by providing that in the suggestions for further investigation.
Given the above two paragraphs, I think it should be clear what my expectation is for optimal care.
"What is a general test..." My reference to general tests is an error on my part in terms of expressing myself it seems. I meant general health screening tests performed by a GP in relation to my symptoms.
"very wrong for a cardiologist..." Yes, I agree. Which is why I would say it would be prudent for them to suggest another appointment with the GP. Which I did go do eventually, but it took me a while due to being told that I was "worrying too much" and potentially causing said issues.
"If someone is explaining..." I think my first paragraph responds to this one. Wish you started with "I think if you ask at the beginning of visits..." because it's the essence of what you're trying to say without the issues that our previous interaction encountered. Also, no not everyone who tried to help me, just you who I seemed to erroneously think was being one.