Iran hangs homosexuals. Iran shot 30,000 people in less than than 2 weeks. The Soviet Union had to build a fucking Iron wall to prevent people from escaping. The Soviets lied about the Chernobyl nuclear explosion. China censors the internet. China wants to eliminate Islam. North Korea is a totalitarian hellscape. Watching anime is a crime.

Why is lemmy.ml so fascinated with authoritarians?

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[–] 666@lemmygrad.ml 25 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (4 children)

From @SCmSTR@lemmy.blahaj.zone

"have friends who are self proclaimed “tankies”, and talking to them a lot about it, my best understanding of the way they put it is basically:

You need an Iron Fist® to fix anything, and an Iron Fist® to keep it that way."

holy shit maybe instead of listening to your fuckin' friends you have a WHOLE BOARD OF MARXIST-LENINIST TANKIES THAT YOU CAN ASK, TALK TO OR EVEN READ PREVIOUS POSTS FROM THAT HAVE AN ENTIIIIREEEE COMMMUNIIIITTTTYYY OF PEOPLE WITH DIFFERENT LEVELS OF EDUCATION, LITERACY AND VIEWS ON MARXIST-LENINISM!!!

Like what the fuck do you even do? Like sure, you can agitate, educate and do everything in your power as a communist as you should to point people and teach them what your beliefs are...but what does it matter when they stare at the giant, descript signs with arrows pointing to even longer, actual descriptions of what we believe in and why and they just stare at the sign and bleat "Uhh my friends says tankieism is when iron fist!"

Like wtf do you actually do???

[–] JoeByeThen@hexbear.net 21 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Iron Fist®

I-was-saying

[–] FlakesBongler@hexbear.net 13 points 1 week ago

[–] iByteABit@hexbear.net 20 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Communism is when Stalin gives you a 3 hour long Iron Fisting session and then you can take some potato pudding from the communal pot before you head to your Gulag bloc

[–] 666@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 1 week ago

Fuck you, that got me 😂

[–] test_@hexbear.net 8 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

you have a WHOLE BOARD OF MARXIST-LENINIST TANKIES THAT YOU CAN ASK

we tend to dogpile libs who wander in. Sometimes they deserve it, but I think sometimes we succumb to the frustration of being a demonized group with a hard-to-explain worldview. I get it, I feel the same way, but unfortunately it's a feedback loop. The more we seem unhinged or immature, the easier it is to write us off -- and propaganda already makes it easy.

It might help if we had easily accessible topic megathreads, with resources for arguing with libs about sensitive topics, so we can easily cut through false accusations and clear the path to discuss the true ones in a nuanced way.

[–] 666@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

On Lemmygrad we do have that, though. That's the thing, Hexbear is a leftist unity website. If they want to talk to tankies specifically then they would have to go to our instance or talk to someone from our instance on hexbear or a tankie on here.

They also don't have to wander in and say anything. There's a reason early forums encouraged lurking; it reminds me a lot of "no investigation, no right to speak!" it was expected you'd come in, understand or read up on a website's community instead of wandering in and wondering why it's not reddit.

[–] test_@hexbear.net 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

If someone is willing to patiently educate themself by reading posts on a tankie forum, that suggests that they are probably already interested in altering their worldview and are open to tankie positions, which is 90% of the battle.

But because our worldview is so demonized, most liberals don't want to be persuaded by it. It would be like, if one of us wandered into a highly detailed holocaust denial forum -- if we lacked the knowledge to argue back, because we're not nazis obsessed with denying the holocaust, that would be an uncomfortable feeling, and rather than opening our minds to this atrocious new perspective, we would hightail it out of there looking for someone, anyone, to debunk those claims (and in our case we'd be in luck).

The first thing to reach a liberal (or anyone) isn't evidence, it's credibility, which comes from our values, conduct, and epistemology. They first have to see that, despite what they hear and currently believe about us, we're good people, we care about the same things they do, and we try to inform ourselves in a rigorous, media-literate, open-minded way. Then they need to see liberal media as less credible -- it can help to start with low-hanging fruit, to establish that they do lie, at least sometimes. Then they're open to argument.

That can all happen pretty quickly during an interaction, even in the span of a few well-constructed comments. We have a few people who are great at this. But if someone is just minding their own business in other forums, absorbing the ambient anticommunism of their environment, they'll never reach that point, they'll never be curious enough to want to lurk or browse a tankie forum.