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The USA already doesn't have a win condition, but the only way for longterm stability would be something like Iran getting EU membership which isn't on the table. The solution with the least harm would be for the USA and other NATO allies to help the Iranians overthrow the despots and cut ties with China. The worst possible outcome is like 40% of Iranians die, Israel claims land, and the IRGC stays in power, which is pretty close to your idea of the best outcome.
The time to do that was before bombing hundreds of Iranian children. And civilian infrastructure. Way too late now.
Are you expecting me to defend the Trump Admin? It's never too late so long as the IRGC holds power, but yes he's made it a lot harder for us to accomplish positive change.
Your problem here is that you think that "we" can accomplish any positive change. Only Iranians can do that. What "we" want to do is further our imperial domination of the globe.
For the moderate wing of the imperial powers (i.e. your "we"), that means toppling the state and replacing it with a pliant comprador regime which will privatize resources and reduce labour protections and the social safety net, enabling greater profits to flow back into the imperial core and to western companies. As a side benefit and for PR, this would also entail some opening up in terms of social liberties, which would be the "positive change" you're talking about, but it's both entirely optional and only at the expense of looting Iran.
For the extreme wing of the imperial powers, which is to say Israel, the goal is to completely destroy the Iranian nation and turn it into a fragmented, forcibly deindustrialized basket case that has no ability to threaten the goal of Greater Israel.
In short, while you probably don't realize it, you're articulating a position which is still ultimately hostile and detrimental to the Iranian people and to the middle east as a whole - just not as much as the faction that's aiming for the destruction of Iran. A neoliberal comprador regime in Iran would be friendly with Israel, so the Greater Israel project would remain unopposed except by scattered resistance groups which could be dealt with piecemeal, and the overthrow of the Iranian state would therefore usher in genocide and forced displacement across the region.
Thus, the only moral and rational position is full support for the Iranian state, in spite of its flaws.
No I'm just saying you might as well give up on that dream - the regime will have more support than ever, now.
We're discussing hypothetical outcomes, I doubt any one of the suggestions in this thread will have any real world impact but remaining silent would be stupid.
Disagree. A democratic Iran with 90 million population, and presumably no sanctions, is a growth powerhouse that produces loads of things, among which loads of weapons. For Israel's security apparatus, that's a country one "bad" election away from launching a lot more weapons at them. That's something which Israel will not let stand. Which is also why they are so obviously not going for regime change but instead for inducing a failed state that's ungovernable, can't organize production, won't have sanctions lifted, would perpetually have insurgency that can be bombed at will, or in technical terms mow the lawn.
There's no outcome other than diminished US or Israeli power, or both, that would produce stability in the region given Israel's ambitions and US interests in the region.
As for the Iranian people, their only hope for better life can come from internal struggle against their gov't over time that would be made a whole lot easier if their economic situation is made better through lifting of sanctions, or if sanctions remain - through massively increased trade with China. (Cause the more resources people have, the more they have left to organize as change does not come through magic and spontaneous revolutions are a fantasy.) If the EU is smart, they would drop their sanctions against Iran. Which is actually plausible if more shit keeps hitting the fan and their oil supply does not resume, which could force them to break ranks with the US on this.
Apparently the mods don't like me talking about male genetalia, so I'll rephrase.
You can't expect to be taken seriously while being an anti-democracy advocate.
Aaalright then. I think we're done here.
Only if you don't take into account harm for Iranians in your idea of "harm." What you're describing is basically what happened in Libya.
Iranians were starving and being shot to death in the streets even before the war, continuing the war until the USA admits defeat will also lead to undue suffering. The only system of representing Iranian citizens is a democracy which is the furthest from their current organization.
Are you not capable of learning from history? Again, you could've said the same thing about Libya. Does Libya in 2026 look like a thriving democracy to you? Then why do you want to do the same thing in Iran?
Revolution does not always result in democracy, but democracy is still the best system for protecting health and happiness of the majority of people.
Libya now is still better off than Libya under Gaddafi.
What the actual fuck. Holy dear Jesus. That's a wild take if I ever saw one.
Great counter argument.
What. The. Fuck? Libya under Gaddafi didn't have fucking slave markets you can't be fucking serious. Also foreign countries dropping bombs isn't a "revolution" anymore than Soviet-backed regimes in Eastern Europe were revolutionary.
There are news stories of Gaddafi's slave trade operations since like 1996, probably earlier.