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For what? How could they possibly know that it was a school? They aren't privy to the intel. They are on a boat or a base, maybe hundreds of miles away. They receive an order to fire on a location and follow the order.
That's exactly what they signed up for. Grunt work. Following orders.
I rephrased in a follow up to someone else's comment. The people that ordered the strike on old Intel should be charged. There were failures in the process, and those responsible should be held responsible.
Yes, they should be charged. But they won't be charged, because the executive branch is the very branch that runs law enforcement and the military. Why would they give themselves a black eye?
Right. They don't know anything at all about what they're shooting at all because it's abstract and viewed through computer screen.
However they do know that the these orders are coming down from three possible sources. 1. Targeting specialists using enshitified useless AI services. 2. Chatbots themselves or 3. Child raping genocide mongers.
Which why they just shouldn't do it. Go to the brig. Sabotage the missile with a fork lift accident. Fake illness. Anything. I don't care, do whatever you have to do to not be party to this monstrous regime. And that's why they are still responsible for it.
We know.
"They were just following orders"
Kinda like brave djihadists on the 7th of october am i right?
There's no "just" about it. They were following orders AND they did not know. They couldn't have known. The soldiers are given coordinates, not the details about what the structure is used for.
The Nazis at Nuremburg could not claim ignorance. There was a clear paper trail. Nazis had killed millions for the reason of ethnic cleansing. They did it for years. They kept records.
Tell me, how are these situations similar?
https://scholarlycommons.law.case.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1463&context=jil
Show me where does it speak about knowledge. You're just moving the goalpost to defend your little war criminal buddies.
Nope. Not gonna read a 23 page document. YOU tell ME how it's similar. Or at least copy/paste the relevant information.
Second, I'm all about prosecuting war crimes. I'd love to see this one prosecuted. How about we actually investigate it, too? Maybe, I dunno, find out who gave the order. If bad intel was passed. If the leaders knew about the bad intel but decided to proceed.
Ofc, this won't actually happen. The "war" is just another distraction, until the next manufactured crisis and the next until humanity snuffs itself out with its own all-too-clever Machiavellian schemes.
But by all means, throw the full weight of social justice at the poor sap who has to live with knowing his finger pushed a button that killed 160 innocent girls. Beloved daughters and sisters, erased from this world to amuse a demented billionaire's ego.
You're a bad faithed war crime apologist lmao.
"They were just following orders" "So like the nazis" "No, not like that!!!!!!"
Nobody cares about your internal politics buddy. Maybe we could bomb one of your school to bring freedom to the USA
Yeah might as well just hang him. It'd just be mercy killing at this point
This is not an individual failure. It's a systemic failure. Americans should pay for this. With their blood.
They knew they were bombing an enemy country unprovoked, which is illegal under international laws. I know you're an american and thus a nazi, and that could have happened to you, but here's an idea: maybe don't enlist in an imperlalist force that kills children for breakfast.
You got me twisted, my friend. I fully condemn the military actions. All of them.
But assigning blame to some random soldier? It's like screaming at the waitress over a menu item. She didn't write the menu, she doesn't cook the food, she has literally no power over anyone.
No. It's like screaming at the waitress who served arsenic to kids and killed 160 of them while knowing full well the restaurant sometimes do that
How does it feel downplaying war crime?
It seems like assigning the blame solely to the soldier is downplaying the crime. Why don't you want the entire chain of command prosecuted?
I do. Hang them.
If you were to throw a rock or fire a bullet, you are expected to LOOK where that projectile is going. You are held accountable for that action even if you miss your target. Only a child is deemed unaccountable for that sort action (up to about age 2). This is magnitudes more important when the missile explodes in a radius the size of a house. So there's NO EXCUSE for the grunt on any level who pushes the button, and doesn't LOOK or know where it is going. Are you saying military grunts are to tried as toodlers?!? for the crimes they commit?
They weren't throwing rocks. They weren't shooting a rifle. They were shooting missiles.
Again, the soldier who fired that missile would have no idea what sort of building he's been ordered to strike. That soldier is sitting in a command center somewhere, miles away from the front line, feeding coordinates into a targeting system.
And, yes, grunts are usually treated EXACTLY like toddlers, especially in military court. That's why they're called "grunts". They are trained to follow orders. They are trained to push the button without question. THAT'S THEIR JOB.
Now, if a grunt is given an order which directly violates the military law, they can refuse. So, if their commanding officer said "Hey, I want you to kill those 170 underage civilians", then the grunt can (and should) say "Hell no, sir". That wasn't the case here. There's no reason for the grunt to refuse the order, because the grunt is just targeting a building, with a missile.
Can you not see why that is the problem?
If your commanding officer tells you to fire anywhere, you should be expected to know where that is. Obviously "grunts" should have some kind of visual access to the target they are firing at, so they can decide for themselves if it is a military law crime. Otherwise you are just preforming the Milgram shock experiment with real consequences.
I can't speak for what actually happens, or what even what SOP in the armed forces might be in this situation.
SO..I googled it. Here's the levels of complexity involved in a Tomahawk missle strike:
Command and Authorization (Top-Down Flow)
Authorization: The process starts with a decision by the President, often passed through the National Security Council to the Secretary of Defense, and then to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Command Channel: The Joint Chiefs convey the order to a regional commander (e.g., U.S. Central Command or Indo-Pacific Command). Execution Order: The regional commander transmits the target information and engagement requirements to the specific launch platforms (ships or submarines).
Transmitting the Order to the Specialist
Secure Communications: The order is sent via secured, encrypted digital communications to the vessel's Tomahawk Strike Coordinator (TSC) or equivalent senior operator. TTWCS Integration: The data is directly integrated into the Tactical Tomahawk Weapons Control System (TTWCS) on board. Mission Planning: The TTWCS allows the crew to plan the route or receive pre-planned, digital target coordinates, known as a Missile Sequence Number (MSN) task.
Action by the Specialized Operator (Launch Team)
Mission Assignment: The firing platform's operators receive a digital tasker, which includes primary and sometimes backup assignments. Validation: Specialists on the bridge/combat center verify the target and launch authorization. Targeting Data Entry: The TTWCS is updated with the new target data, which may include GPS coordinates. Block IV missiles can be reprogrammed in-flight, but the launch command requires pre-defined parameters. Launch Sequence: The operators execute the final launch sequence, which involves the missile being ejected by a solid-fuel booster from the Vertical Launching System (VLS).
SO, at which point should the crew have refused the order? Where does the blame lay?
Me thinks the lady doth protest too much. Did something like this happen to you or someone you know? It did indeed happen to a couple of my family members, but that doesn't make it excusable. Growing up in a military city has taught me there is no end to the amount of technical mumbo-jumbo an organization will come up with to dodge accountability for an immoral act.
They assist their grunts in this accountability-dodging too, for better compliance (so they don't go home and shoot themselves). The better part of them choose to drink themselves to death anyways because they know, deep down, that what they have done is wrong regardless of how many loopholes you try and bake in to the process.
This is why the PROCESS needs to change. We need to find some way to give them the information they need, the accountability, AND the permission to deny orders without repercussion.
Dunno what to tell ya. The process is what it is. What we are seeing is a failure of of the entire system of checks and balances. The legislative and judicial branches refuse to reign in the executive branch. IMHO, our Congress members and Supreme Court are more culpable for those girls' deaths than the soldier who fired that missile.
Nuremberg defense. They were just following orders. I hope they learn what they did. That's enough for anybody to unalive themselves.