Fuck Cars
A place to discuss problems of car centric infrastructure or how it hurts us all. Let's explore the bad world of Cars!
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Any cars out there under 30k that are completely manual and don't have a screen, that I can repair myself? No? Well, I'll never buy a new car then, fuck you automakers.
We had millions of those types of cars 20 years ago, now they're nonexistent.
I'll even get an electric if its completely analog. But they refuse to do that even though it takes very very little effort. An electric car is (mostly) a voltage regulator a motor and a battery. Its not hard people.
There used to be a car like that, could get a manual and you could fix it yourself - on the rare occasion it needs work.
It was the 2014-2024 Mitsubishi Mirage, and the entire US made fun of it. That's what happens when someone makes a cheap, dependable, simple car in the US, people act like it's the worst vehicle ever made because you can see exposed screw heads when you open the door.
That sounds freaking rad to me. I want an open source car standard so bad. Exposed screwheads, teardowns galore, commonly available parts.
I'd even learn manual. I hear they're fun.
The biggest con is we've been trained to see vehicles as fashion and status statements rather than their utility.
Sometimes a strange car will gain a sort of "cult" following, and that's when you sometimes end up with a situation like you describe, where parts are made by many different 3rd parties. I have an old Japanese 4x4 that was so awesome that Mopar had to team up with consumer reports and the government to kill it. It's 30+ years old and I can get parts for it as easily as I can an F150.
Notable past and current examples of this include:
Chevy Corvair
Geo Metro
Harley-davidson anything
Jeep wrangler
Suzuki Samurai
Toyota Supra
Edit: formatting are hard
Putting one of those together would be a pretty awesome highschool shop class.
The things you seem to think are making cars more expensive, are actually the cost-cutting measures.
The screen is cheaper than a myriad of buttons. Which is literally why Ferrari hired Apple's Jony Ive to design their upcoming EV's interior... with physical controls (it'll still have a screen, but the important features have buttons and knobs and shit and they'll be made of metal and/or glass). To stand out from the crowd, as even premium manufacturers are using cheapo touchscreens instead of making proper interiors anymore.
As for "completely manual", if you mean manual transmission, those are gone because of low demand and the fact that it just costs more to support multiple options. Plus modern autos can actually be incredible. If you actually listen to the transmission manufacturer NOT the car manufacturer for maintenance schedules, they last longer than the clutch tends to do on most manuals and while a clutch job is easier than an auto trans rebuild, it's still not easy. Either one is going to total a 20 year old car for most people (not you or me if we work on our own cars, of course). Oh and automatic transmissions are now more fuel efficient than mediocre drivers with manual transmissions (not necessarily as fuel efficient as great drivers with manual transmissions though).
Anyway, screens themselves aren't bad. The best car I ever owned was (admittedly not under 30k new, but under 30k when I got it used) a 2019 Mercedes C-Class which had a nice screen with Apple Carplay and Android Auto support, but NO touch. There were physical buttons for everything you'd generally want, and you could control the screen with either the rotary knob, the touchpad in front of the armrest, or the steering wheel buttons. But you literally could NOT finger the screen itself to do anything. They changed that with the next generation a few years later, unfortunately. But for me this was perfect because I had a way to control navigation and the music on my phone that did not involve looking at my phone, or interacting with a touch screen.
In fact I don't think any of these features are what makes cars more expensive compared to 20-30 years ago. Screens are cheap now. Automatic everything has been figured out already, the R&D costs for most things already recuperated. It's the size creep if anything. They'll sell exclusively crossovers and SUVs because these are "premium" and margins are better. And even "small" cars, if they still exist, are bigger than the same model used to be. Oh and let's not forget that if you're in the US, everything needs to have like 500 horsepower now, while emissions and fuel efficiency goals dictate smaller engines, so everything HAS to have a turbo now.
In Europe, cheap cars still exist, though they've doubled in price over the last 2 decades (but what hasn't). You CAN still get a Dacia Sandero for 15k. It's so bare bones that to inflate the list of installed equipment, they list things like "fuel tank cap" and "front seat belts" among others. Even that comes with a 10" touch screen as standard because it's just so cheap to add one and it's much easier for them to design than a classic head unit with buttons.
A friend of mine's first assignment as a senior engineer was to find ways to eliminate more moving parts and metal fasteners from cheaper spec products, because removing a dozen two cent screws would save the company tens of millions over the life of the design. Not just in parts, but because they're more complicated and take longer to install than just snapping and glueing a plastic shell together.
With the scale of manufacturing at companies like GM and Ford, saving a few thousand per car on parts and labor with a touchscreen infotainment system is a massive, massive amount of money. The R&D costs of converting from knobs to touchscreens would probably be covered in the first few months.
Precisely. And keep in mind that the buttons and knobs would usually be different on the different models, but with the touchscreen OS you have one OS you keep developing and just hide some of the features in some of the models. So there's less model-specific R&D and more common R&D for all products
Also maintenance is cheaper when you reduce things that can break, so lower warranty costs as well.
I don’t know. My brother works for a legacy manufacturer and claims the difference in material cost between small and large vehicles is minimal. Assembly cost is far more than material cost. He used this to justify why they couldn’t make a small truck: it’s equally complex to assemble and the materials cost difference is minimal so they couldn’t make it enough cheaper that anyone would buy it.
Up to you whether to buy the company line but that’s the claim
I drive a 2013 Miata with 6 speed manual rear wheel drive configuration and it has no tracker and no screen.
sounds like you want a miata
Is there anything like a miata for bigger people? One of these days I plan to own a home and would love a project car. People always seem to suggest a miata because they are cheapish, repairable, and have a huge community modding them. The problem? I am 6"4'. Maybe I could go with a convertible miata and wear goggles.
I have a 99 loll. Peak car
Slate promises to be analog
Its not legal to make that car anymore in Canada/USA and likely other places. They are mandated to have a backup camera all over the place.
EU mandates an SOS call function as well, so a data connection is also basically mandatory.
Is it though?
I don't suppose I know the EU situation, but at least in the US, cellular towers are supposed to accept an emergency call regardless of anything like a SIM susbscription, so if the car doest uses a cellular modem to dial emergency ervices, the car wouldn't necessarily actually need a subscription active.
Maybe it doesn't work that way in EU, but it seems like it should be the case that a mandatory emergency call function shouldn't carry a subscription burden.
The moment you spend the money putting in a cellular connection that can make a call (SOS) and be connected to a mic and speaker system, you start asking how can we recoup that cost.
We already have a backup screen mandated by law.
We can show maps on it and stream music from their favorite music service!
You can put that extra stuff behind a paid sub.
Doesn't apply to motorbikes, and they get crazy high fuel efficiency to cars.
If you want to raise your chances of dying substantially over a backup camera you can go right ahead. Please sign your organ donor card first though.
I normally cycle instead. Even fewer regulations and taxes.
Cycling is great ya. Every city should be working towards adding more and more cycling infrastructure.
A lot of people will complain, but its worth it.
I'll cycle with or without it, I don't really have a choice. Gotta buy food.