This was suggested to me by another user in the current big thread about this. I haven't finished watching it yet. It's from Poddy Mouth, a black creator. Apparently the video has perspectives from black people with Tourette's included. Might be valuable in this moment.
This is a (very short, < 5 minutes) video from a black elected official with Tourette's. He takes the position that an acknowledgement or apology is necessary. I think this was before the subsequent statement mentioned in the video linked in the post title was made (the following day), so I don't know if that statement would meet the standard this person had in mind for addressing the harm caused.
As I said in my other comments, I don't have the energy right now to really engage with this discussion further, and I don't want to accidentally cause harm by doing so. I just thought this video also belonged in this thread. Also as I said, if you have other such videos please do post them in this thread or in their own post.
Edit: this video, similar to the one linked in the post title, I got from a comment by another user in the previous thread.
I have been asked by another user to include the following info in the post body, which might be relevant to the discussion.
i think you should link this article directly from the guy with tourettes in the post: https://archive.is/GS647
this bit in particular would be helpful i think
Since the fallout, Davidson’s team shares that he’s reached out to the studio handling “Sinners” in order to directly apologize to Jordan, Lindo and production designer Hannah Beachler.
It has been pointed out that the discussions that happened on this post can be hard to follow for people who did not see prior posts discussing this subject. I think I wanted to avoid encouraging directly transferring the arguments from prior posts, but that was probably ridiculous to think. I have added them below.
Previous post: https://hexbear.net/post/7763428
Post before that: https://hexbear.net/post/7750273
Mods stop beating around the bush and make a mega sticky. Cause I can't be in community with people who think saying Fuck is the same as saying Ni***R.
The man both took precautions not to disrupt the proceedings AND apologised. The fuck do you want?
Because it seems like what you want is just loudly being wrong about a disease.
We as onlookers didn't even know about a direct apology until 2 days ago, you all fought so hard on why there shouldn't be one and now you're hiding behind there behind one.
i just want to know why everyone is so hyperfocused on one guy instead of going after the bbc for airing this uncensored
We're mad as hell at BBC too, we're mad at the awards for not notifying the presenters well enough, we're mad at a 2 hour delay and keeping it in anyway but taking out Palestine and Congo and Sudan, of course we're mad.
But Ni***R wasn't said in some vaccum by a machine to a void. It was during a moment 2 Black people were on stage, a quick "oopsy it's part of the Tourettes" after means a lot more than "because I can't control it, you shouldn't be mad".
all i can say the vibe i have gotten online is much more like what is shown in the video in that people are overwhelmingly more mad about the guy with tourrette's than the bbc
Are they mad at him for saying it or mad there wasn't an apology? Cause I've seen the latter way more than the former and I even saw people in the former category apologize for being misinformed but still want an apology.
People are mad that Black people had to hear Ni**** during an award ceremony then get it broadcasted to the world. Michael B Jordan's mom cried from it because that word has weight behind it.
There's no context where Black people ever want to hear Ni**** and on a stage in front of so many, likely, white folk during a ceremony is definitely the last place. Then have y'all come out from who knows where ready to defend this- a lack of apology- is ultimatley insulting.
he actually did (or is trying to) get in touch to apologize directly to the individuals in question
per Variety
just linked the same article lol
https://archive.is/GS647
i think you should read the whole article i think it would help you understand why people are coming out of "who knows where" to defend this. even i just learned they dont like calling it a disability so i will try and avoid doing that now.
I actually know he recently reached out for an apology, I saw the report yesterday, which settles this for me. And I emphasize I never said anything about the guy nor his character.
But y'all made sure to bend over backwards to make sure we (Black people) knew he didn't have to apologize. Told us it's aggregious and abelist to expect one too since it's not his fault,, minimized the impact of a slur.
Theoretically, would you have considered it well-handled with it if a representative for Davidson had apologized for the harm instead of he himself giving it?
I'm not trying to rehash the arguments already made, I'm just trying to understand what the best course of action is to protect all harm to oppressed groups generally. And it seems to me that Davidson going onto the stage to say "I'm so sorry for the tic and didn't mean it" also wasn't the right move (for many reasons, including that the harm could've been accidentally repeated and that it would be harmful to his mental health to need to do that on such a huge stage). This solution in the long-term would require always having someone around Davidson to perform this act if needed, which has practicality issues... But it's the best I can think of until we have a world where people understand the harm of racism and TS separately and as they (unintentionally) intersect.
I think I'm looking for such a solution because a lot of the analogies about 'saying sorry when you didn't mean to or couldn't control it' miss the quantity->quality dialectic. From what I've gathered, this would be a major impact on his life to apologize consistently for things he doesn't want to do but come out anyways. If it were once a week (like most analogous examples stated here seem to me), I don't think there would be as strong of feelings against a required apology. But it seems that this could be a 'multiple times per hour' thing, which just is an entirely different situation. The harm to others is equivalent and directly related to the amount it happens, but the harm to himself is likely not linear and become exponential once it takes up more than 1/10 of his day to explain himself and apologize.
Our issue is with hearing a slur. Nothing to do with his other tics but if he's saying that slur every hour or week, then I don't know what to tell you beyond Black people don't want to be around that. But in this instance a slur was said and Black people were impacted by it and we only want some some action for the slur and the slur alone.
We know the situation wasn't handled well and Michael B Jordan and Lindo didn't get informed about what they could hear, we can't go back and fix that. But it would be exponentially better for us to know they were taken care of in some way, warning is off the table cause that passed but apology.
He has a rightfully has a right to exist in any place I agree with that but then what, Black people also have the right to hear NiR and we should be proud that disability justice made progress? He has a right to exist anywhere and should and we don't wanna hear NiR.
fair enough. but a lot of people have been doing so online which is where my confusion has come from.
i havent done anything remotely close to that dont put words in my mouth please.
Admittedly it's not the same thing as Tourette's and definitely not nearly as severe as dropping the n-word in a public event celebrating an achievement by black people, but I go through something in a similar vein as an autistic person where I sometimes upset people by accident because I miss certain cues or am unaware of certain unspoken social rules. I feel bad and apologize when that happens because even if I didn't intend to hurt them, I still hurt them. I don't think that's self-hatred or "apologizing for my existence" as I've seen some people frame it. Davidson is apparently trying to get in touch with them to apologize, which seems entirely reasonable to me.
People talk about Davidson's right to exist in public as a person with Tourette's and he absolutely does have that right, which I don't think anyone here is disputing. What some people are overlooking is that being subjected to horrible racial slurs has a negative effect on black people's ability to exist in public. Accommodation has to be mutual.
Well said! That's all it takes.
I'm autistic myself, I accidentally told a doordash driver who gave me the wrong order "I don't want you making future mistakes" when I meant "I don't want you to get to the next house and accidentally give them the wrong order(because I had theirs)." I cleared up I wasn't mad about it and glad we were able to do the swap and wished him well. Felt like an ass over it after but that's just part of being autistic.
Right wing debate bro bullshit works really well, what is there to be said