this post was submitted on 23 Feb 2026
216 points (98.6% liked)

History Memes

2061 readers
914 users here now

A place to share history memes!

Rules:

  1. No sexism, racism, homophobia, transphobia, assorted bigotry, etc.

  2. No fascism (including tankies/red fash), atrocity denial or apologia, etc.

  3. Tag NSFW pics as NSFW.

  4. Follow all Piefed.social rules.

  5. History referenced must be 20+ years old.

Banner courtesy of @setsneedtofeed@lemmy.world

OTHER COMMS IN THE HISTORYVERSE:

founded 9 months ago
MODERATORS
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Ataturk: The Rebirth of a Nation by Patrick Kinross.

[–] PugJesus@piefed.social 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Ataturk: The Rebirth of a Nation by Patrick Kinross.

One small problem - I own and have read that book, and have it on my Amazon account as an ebook no less, and to my recollection it says nothing of the sort and in fact speculates on Ataturk's possible impotency during the 20s and 30s from venereal disease contracted during his younger years.

Do you have a rough idea of what page this accusation is on?

EDIT: Another user pointed out the paragraph. It's an aside, but it arguably makes the accusation. I apologize for my hostility.

[–] AlDente@sh.itjust.works 6 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

I just downloaded the book from Anna's Archive, and after a quick search I found this on page 853:

Adolescents attracted and interested him, and when the girls reached the age when they sat regularly at table he began to take notice both of their charms and their talents. None of them was exceptionally pretty; nor had they the graces of women of the world. But they provided him with the ideal ‘harem’. They were in his power, thanks to their youth and their dependence on him. He could groom them and mould them and guide them in the direction he wanted them to follow. He could use them as he chose – and when he no longer chose, could ‘wean’ them and launch them into marriage or into a career. For the girls themselves, so ambivalent a father-lover-schoolmaster relationship might create certain psychological stresses. But for Kemal it provided the family background he needed, one from which irksome ties of blood were missing, and in which wife and children became in effect one.

[–] PugJesus@piefed.social 2 points 2 days ago

Hm. It seems that's the paragraph doesn't continue into (or come from) any broader explanation, which might be why it failed to make an impression on me back when I read it. I'll have to look into the accusation for the sake of being able to have an informed opinion on it.

All the same, that is a legitimate source, and I can definitely confirm that that quote is in my copy, so the comment remains.

It's wild that Kinross seemed to think this was all OK because the girls were ugly.

[–] ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

For the girls themselves, so ambivalent a father-lover-schoolmaster relationship might create certain psychological stresses. But for Kemal it provided the family background he needed, one from which irksome ties of blood were missing, and in which wife and children became in effect one.

This is an aside? Lol "certain psychological stresses". One could just as easily describe it as a whitewashing. But good for Kemal, he got what he needed!

[–] PugJesus@piefed.social 2 points 2 days ago

I mean, yes, it is literally an aside just before the end of the chapter.

If true, it's abhorrent. But I'm disinclined, for reasons stated above, to think it's true at this point in time.