I linked to the timestamp, it's a long ass video. The front part of the video is great, total normal TC content. Post video though, he gets into his personal politics somewhat, and here I'm thinking "oh, secret Marxist reveal?", but then he gets into partisan politics and it's a full-blown crash out about defiling the constitution and how Dems are always trying to make things better, but republicans show up to undo it all. He reads from the declaration of independence, waxes on about the constitution, the whole nine-yards.

It's really great. Lots of respect. He puts it all out there. If he's interested, I think Cowbee has a reading list he might be interested in.

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[–] RedWizard@hexbear.net 30 points 2 days ago (2 children)

turbo? idk about that, he says some cool and good things about labor just before this part of the video. I think he's in that phase of political awakening where it feels like you're the only sane person in the room, and the people you supported suddenly look and sound like transparent criminals. He says at one point, "Apparently, NO ONE is going to hold ANYONE accountable anymore!". I think he's simply a well-meaning progressive liberal who has hit the wall on trying to understand why things are happening. He probably doesn't have any other frame of reference, any other liberatory or revolutionary language to draw on than those of the founding fathers. Which, is simply how liberal society functions. At some point, though, he will realize that even that liberatory and revolutionary language fails to meet the moment.

I think Marx says it best:

The tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living. And just as they seem to be occupied with revolutionizing themselves and things, creating something that did not exist before, precisely in such epochs of revolutionary crisis they anxiously conjure up the spirits of the past to their service, borrowing from them names, battle slogans, and costumes in order to present this new scene in world history in time-honored disguise and borrowed language. [...] The social revolution of the nineteenth century cannot draw its poetry from the past, but only from the future. It cannot begin with itself before it has stripped off all superstition in regard to the past. Earlier revolutions required recollections of past world history in order to drug themselves concerning their own content. In order to arrive at its own content, the revolution of the nineteenth century must let the dead bury their dead."

[–] ReadFanon@hexbear.net 13 points 2 days ago (1 children)

This is why I've worked really hard to pull back from calling out blue MAGA when they treat any of the most minor criticisms of a democrat politician like you just insulted 7 generations of their ancestors.

I mean this with sincerity - I think that the people who react like that are one of the most powerful forces for radicalizing progressives over the hump into the radical left. It's only when you consider yourself a democratic voter through and through but you have a genuine criticism, like why Biden increased funding to ICE and outdid Trump 1.0 in deportations and incarcerations in the border prison camps and continued building the wall, only to get treated as if you're Trump's biggest fan, public enemy number 1, and that you're personally to blame for Kamala losing etc. Just one of these moments is all it takes.

Then someone who is self-aware enough like TC is gonna look around the metaphorical room and see all these people who are snarling at him, who don't give a damn about principles or ethics or that fucking awful constitution or human rights, and they are gonna realize that they no longer recognize the community they exist within, that these people they thought were allies and who shared the same values are just as bad, just as willing to comprise on any values in order to win. And that's when a person like this has a permanent and irreparable break from liberalism. Just one or two of them telling him "I hope ICE comes knocking at your door and drags you and your loved ones off to CECOT. How dare you make a valid criticism of a democratic candidate like that!? You are dead to me." and he's gonna have his road to Damascus moment.

This is why in the lead up to the most recent US presidential election I was riling up blue MAGA on social media in the comments. I legitimately wanted to put them through their own little strategy of (ideological) tension. I wanted them to be in such a siege mentality, in such a terrified political tailspin that they were lashing out at anyone and everyone. I wanted them barking at shadows and treating everyone like an opponent or a clandestine enemy. Because I know that they were turning on their own with that energy too; I can't agitate within their circles very much but I can foster a mentality in them where they do that work for me and they will be far more effective at it than I could hope to be.

This is why I personally try to cultivate a comradely approach as best I can and why I opt for call-in culture over call out culture. One is corrosive and it harms any sort of movement or efforts to organize. The other builds. If we allow ourselves to be at one another's throats then we are doing COINTELPRO's work for it. Some things need to be called out and some things absolutely should not be permitted, of course, but if everyone is constantly on edge, if we extend no grace towards our comrades, then we will bring a sort of belligerence to our work and we will never make progress.

In saying all this, there's a particular radical comm that exists in the lemmyverse that this brings to mind. You know the one. The head admin of it constantly lashes out and goes on witch hunts. The culture they set is incredibly toxic and corrosive to their politics. If propaganda of the deed is a thing then anti-propaganda of the deed is too. If it's not clear enough yet, you can find a comment of mine where I mention the phrase petty tyrant for more info. (I don't actually intend to rile up that particular character btw, although they are on a hair trigger so it just happens. I know very well how I could stoke an ideological strategy of tension with them if I wanted to - I know them better than they think. But that's not my intention and I have far better things to do. And one of those things is picking quarrels and provoking trouble with progressive libs because I'm getting the backwards to self-isolate while bringing up the intermediate and bringing over the advanced.)

Idk where I'm going with this.

[–] RedWizard@hexbear.net 3 points 1 day ago

Idk where I'm going with this.

I totally understand what you're getting at. You could watch this and think "LOL fucking lib" and then just dismiss it. It's very similar to looking at this and thinking the exact same thing. What's interesting is the comments in that thread compared to similar threads from about a year ago when the New Kings protests were popping off. When sorted by Top, the comments rank the sentiment by "we've all been cringe before becoming radical", to "whatever gets libs to turn on ice", to "fuck the constitution". That's the road liberals in MN on are in various ways. Direct contact with fascists is doing more than any amount of posting ever could, and it would seem, externally, people are more compassionate to people's expressions of liberalism in direct response to this contact with fascists.

Like you said, people are going to arrive at their own criticism. People in MN are going to wonder WHY Democrats are voting to give ICE more money, and they will likely encounter people who will tell them they have to shut up and vote or else the Republicans will give them even MORE money. Positioning ourselves to on ramp those people getting attacked is correct. If our reaction was to dismiss people in the kind of limbo state TC seems to be in at the end of this video as "libs" then we miss out on the opportunity to push them in our direction, to build the bridge and help them walk across it.

This group that we're talking about is standing at the edge of a river without a means to cross it. We can help them cross that river. None of us crossed it on our own, someone, even if it was some dead philosopher from the 1800s, helped us cross that river.

[–] comrade_pibb@hexbear.net 10 points 2 days ago

Fair