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Amsterdam prepares to ‘ban the fatbikes’ amid rise in serious accidents [The Netherlands] (www.theguardian.com)
submitted 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) by HowRu68@lemmy.world to c/europe@feddit.org
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The safety organisation VeiligheidNL estimates that 5,000 fatbike riders are treated in A&E [ i.e Accident & Emergency] departments each year, on the basis of a recent sample of hospitals. “And we also see that especially these young people aged from 12 to 15 have the most accidents,” said the spokesperson Tom de Beus.

Now Amsterdam’s head of transport, Melanie van der Horst, has said “unorthodox measures” are needed and has announced that she will ban these heavy electric bikes from city parks, starting in the Vondelpark. Like the city of Enschede, which is also drawing up a city centre ban, she is acting on a stream of requests “begging me to ban the fatbikes”.

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[–] Alloi@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Yeah, like it was easy to mod a moped to go beyond the speed limit (45Km/h in Italy), but it was still illegal.

sure is, but a human cyclist can ride up to 60kmph unassisted. yet no license for that.

Or, maybe, is about closing a loophole that allow people to drive bikes more powerfull than the one that need a driver's license without a driver's license. Are brown people excluded from obtaining a driver's license in Amsterdam ? No, so they can simple get a driver's license like everyone else.
Not everything is about races even if you think so.

recent immigrants are excluded from obtaining a drivers license until they pass a drivers test, or have one from a country with similar laws. in the meantime, many refugees, asylum seekers, immigrants, etc are poor and need a way to get around and make money, without taking out thousands, to tens of thousands of dollars in debt, plus fees. so they resort to using ebikes, or regular bikes, public transit, uber, etc. to get around. ebikes are a great way for them to get work doing delivery service in well populated areas. and that has obviously lead to a lot of contention on that subject. ignoring that variable in a much larger equation will give skewed results. so dont ignore it.

It is about following the traffic regulations. I agree that the ebikes were a nice idea when the electric side of the it was really just just a little help but now, honestly, what I see are ebikes that are more powerfull of the moped for which you need the license.

i dont disagree, i just dont believe banning specific vehicles or ebikes will solve the issue.

Yeah, only difference is that the death wagon at 150 Km/h is not driven on the sidewalk and you need e license to drive it.

and that still doesnt stop it from being the deadliest thing any human can get in or be around on a daily basis. stats do not lie about that in any sense.

So, why is it a problem to ask to follow the laws ? You can ride a bike, it is not a problem, but you need to follow the rules.

the rules in this case are banning a particular type of vehicle commonly driven in the area by immigrants doing delivery service or travelling for work, or just in general. and seeing as its amsterdam, a place that has been known to be racist and xenophobic due to decades of cannabis related tourism (amongst other reasons) gives cadence to the fact that recent fluctuations of people fleeing destablized countries arent assimilating the way they are wanted to by locals, and established businesses/corporations. this kind of event always leads to a slurry of new laws and regulations that will please the consistent local registered voter base. the local voter base primarily being white european people who have had a significant uptick in hate crimes and fascistic ideation as of late, all across europe. but also in amsterdam. which, fun fact, is where anne fuckin franks house is. so its not like its historically accurate to say amsterdam isnt susceptable to making policy changes, at least partly based on hate or profit.

banning one model leads to another, and another, and another. a new law, a new regulation, a new business model, higher taxes, higher fees, bigger punishments, more turmoil, its always a slippery slope. and the immigrants historically speaking are a wonderful catalyst for making these changes, either directly, or indirectly. conciously or unconciously, most people just dont question it. pop pop knows best.

banning one bike just makes it easier for them to ban more and push the boot down just a little harder, squeezing more money out of all of us.

it also doesnt solve the problem and is a waste if tax dollars until you consider the legal leverage it gives the political class over the minorities that also drive these things.

[–] gian@lemmy.grys.it 2 points 14 hours ago

sure is, but a human cyclist can ride up to 60kmph unassisted. yet no license for that.

Well, while it is true that you can reach this top velocity, it is not a cruising speed. There is a difference between been able to reach a speed and been able to maintain that speed.
If you are able to maintain 60 km/h for an hour, you could just give a try to the hour record

recent immigrants are excluded from obtaining a drivers license until they pass a drivers test, or have one from a country with similar laws.

Being a recent immigrant has nothing to do with being excluded from obtaining a driver license until they pass a driver test, this is how it work for everyone: it work this way also for a a Dutch person born in Amsterdam: he has to attend driving school to get it. So where is exactly the discrimination ?

in the meantime, many refugees, asylum seekers, immigrants, etc are poor and need a way to get around and make money, without taking out thousands, to tens of thousands of dollars in debt, plus fees. so they resort to using ebikes, or regular bikes, public transit, uber, etc. to get around. ebikes are a great way for them to get work doing delivery service in well populated areas. and that has obviously lead to a lot of contention on that subject. ignoring that variable in a much larger equation will give skewed results. so dont ignore it.

While I agree that they need to move (like everyone else btw) I do not agree on the fact that they should break the law to do it.

Yeah, only difference is that the death wagon at 150 Km/h is not driven on the sidewalk and you need e license to drive it.

and that still doesnt stop it from being the deadliest thing any human can get in or be around on a daily basis. stats do not lie about that in any sense.

I don't agree. While it is true that it can be dangerous, the death for car accident in Italy where a little more than 3000. For comparison in the first 7 months of 2025 there were a little less than 900 work related deaths. In 2024 there where a little more than 1000 work related death. So while I acknowledge that there are too many victims of car accident, I don't think it is the deadliest thing.

the rules in this case are banning a particular type of vehicle commonly driven in the area by immigrants doing delivery service or travelling for work, or just in general. and seeing as its amsterdam, a place that has been known to be racist and xenophobic due to decades of cannabis related tourism (amongst other reasons) gives cadence to the fact that recent fluctuations of people fleeing destablized countries arent assimilating the way they are wanted to by locals, and established businesses/corporations. this kind of event always leads to a slurry of new laws and regulations that will please the consistent local registered voter base. the local voter base primarily being white european people who have had a significant uptick in hate crimes and fascistic ideation as of late, all across europe. but also in amsterdam. which, fun fact, is where anne fuckin franks house is. so its not like its historically accurate to say amsterdam isnt susceptable to making policy changes, at least partly based on hate or profit.

So, still the question: why immigrant cannot follow the laws of the country hosting them ?
I mean, if I would emigrate to Japan I would follow their laws and while I maybe are not able to integrate completely given the differences in culture probably I would be way more integrate that not even following their laws. I can maintain my traditions at home, I doubt that any Japanese would say something if I had my tipical Christmas lunch instead of their traditional lunch.

Same in Amsterdam (or many other place in EU), these immigrants are not integrated because they understand that they can do whatever they want and if someone ask (or force) them to follow the laws of the country immediatly people like you make an excuses about why they can not (or should not) follow them.

It would be better to let them to drive these fat ebikes or whatever they want but just make sure that every every traffic violation is punished (with a fine or whatever) ?

banning one model leads to another, and another, and another. a new law, a new regulation, a new business model, higher taxes, higher fees, bigger punishments, more turmoil, its always a slippery slope. and the immigrants historically speaking are a wonderful catalyst for making these changes, either directly, or indirectly. conciously or unconciously, most people just dont question it. pop pop knows best.

If you say so...

banning one bike just makes it easier for them to ban more and push the boot down just a little harder, squeezing more money out of all of us.

it also doesnt solve the problem and is a waste if tax dollars until you consider the legal leverage it gives the political class over the minorities that also drive these things.

Yeah, yeah, making laws just make it easier for them to make more laws and push the boot down just a little harder and squeezing more money out of all of us. Sound better this way ?

What if everyone just start to follow the actual laws ? Maybe new laws that ban something new would not be necessary, don't you think ?