this post was submitted on 21 Jan 2026
57 points (100.0% liked)
GenZedong
5033 readers
152 users here now
This is a Dengist community in favor of Bashar al-Assad with no information that can lead to the arrest of Hillary Clinton, our fellow liberal and queen. This community is not ironic. We are Marxists-Leninists.
See this GitHub page for a collection of sources about socialism, imperialism, and other relevant topics.
This community is for posts about Marxism and geopolitics (including shitposts to some extent). Serious posts can be posted here or in /c/GenZhou. Reactionary or ultra-leftist cringe posts belong in /c/shitreactionariessay or /c/shitultrassay respectively.
We have a Matrix homeserver and a Matrix space. See this thread for more information. If you believe the server may be down, check the status on status.elara.ws.
Rules:
- No bigotry, anti-communism, pro-imperialism or ultra-leftism (anti-AES)
- We support indigenous liberation as the primary contradiction in settler colonies like the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Israel
- If you post an archived link (excluding archive.org), include the URL of the original article as well
- Unless it's an obvious shitpost, include relevant sources
- For articles behind paywalls, try to include the text in the post
- Mark all posts containing NSFW images as NSFW (including things like Nazi imagery)
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Maybe there's experience I'm missing here that informs the take in this clip. Because I'm not following it much at all. I understand the general idea put forth that you can't force change via magic interventionism brute forcing of material conditions. But I'm not sure I agree with how he explains China's policy. The way he frames it makes it sound to me something like the argument Christians put forth about "free will", where they explain away god not interfering to prevent horrible stuff because that would be violating people's "free will". But this is obviously bogus because most human laws would consider it a crime if you see something terrible happening, can intervene, and don't.
I don't believe that is what China is doing. The way I understand it roughly (which I will admit could be muddled and missing important elements of it, but I present it for dicussion) is that China does not, and did not when they shifted to "reform and opening up", believe the conditions are such that intervening more directly will have more gain than loss and so they focused instead on building their productive forces and becoming a production foundation of the world. Thus enabling them not only to dramatically improve the lives of their own people, but also become so integrated that it's hard (if not impossible by now) for the world capitalist model to isolate and encircle them. This also gave them the power to build material trade ties with other countries and make mutually beneficial deals that could help strengthen those other, otherwise-exploited and isolated countries. Finally, the model of not militarily intervening is directly tied to the legitimization of the multi-polar world model that is situated to replace the dominant imperialist world model.
I don't see this as meaning that China or its allies couldn't ever reach a point where they intervene in some situations, in the capacity of "killing slavers", so to speak, but that such a stage would have to mean an explicit coalition of countries under the banner of liberation and may not be feasible until imperialism has been defeated, or is much weaker militarily (or until China and its allies are stronger military, or both). While imperialism is dominant, engaging in that capacity means hot or cold war with it and China appears to be trying not to get caught up in such a death by a thousand cuts engagement, where they are contending with all of the imperial tendrils lashing while also trying to manage their own affairs.
In other words, it comes across to me like this person is presenting ideology resulting from conditions as being ideology that exists in a static, unchanging state in Chinese culture across time. Although I'm sure Chinese culture impacts the development of its particular version of communist theory and practice, that does not mean it exists outside of it as a separate entity that is unchanged by it.
Of course you are correct to point out that ideology results from material conditions, which can and do change. What is necessary and correct today may not be the right policy tomorrow.
That being said, i think the point that is being made here, if i can paraphrase a little, is that you cannot force liberation on people who don't understand that they need it yet. That just leads to resentment.
If the liberation movement is not organically grown through the experience of struggle but imposed from outside, then the resulting system is inevitably going to be fragile. If you do that then people will continue to cling to the idea that there was a better path that they weren't allowed to try.
People need to be allowed to make their own mistakes and experience first hand why those are mistakes. Just like China had to first experiment with the bourgeois model during the Republican period before understanding that only the socialist path could lead to liberation, sovereignty and prosperity.
The other argument for China's form of non-interference, which offers development and economic benefits but does not get involved in military conflicts, is that it allows imperialism to expose and discredit itself without being able to justify itself with the excuse of countering interference and global maneuvering by socialist states.
Meanwhile China presents itself as a beacon of stability, a stark contrast to the chaos of the declining imperial hegemony, an always reliable economic partner, a principled respecter of sovereignty, and ultimately a role model for other states to follow if they want stability, sovereignty, development and prosperity.
The biggest blunder that the dying US empire is currently making is giving up on its soft power, blowing up the ideological framework that had justified its hegemony for decades. They are falling into the trap of believing that you can dispense with the ideological pretense and just use hard power. But that pretense was necessary, even if it was understood by most to be a figleaf in front of the threat of hard power.
China is building up the new ideological framework to justify the post-hegemonic, multipolar world order. And for that it is vital that they cultivate an appearance of non-interventionism.
We see from the failures of the USSR's socialist state-building attempts after WW2 that unless the people of a country fought and built their socialist system themselves, they will be more susceptible to counter-revolutionary ideas that things could be done some "nebulous better way".
This is a big reason why you see so many Eastern European dumbasses who think that everything wrong with their lives is due to the Soviet Union, forgetting that they were all shithole countries before the Soviet Union built them up.
Research shows that people put more pride and value in something they build themselves, termed the IKEA effect. The same seems true of governance systems.
I'm sure there's truths to that, but I'd just like to say that it was not a shithole for everyone, it was a shithole for the working peasants, the fascists quite liked the arrangement they had going.
In fact they're quite happy to turn my birthplace into overexploited shithole again. The only reason we haven't collapsed yet is because Brussels sometimes subsidizes and how are we supposed to become independent now?
I am wondering how much of this drive for Nationalism is the tendency of history to over-correct itself, like how is it even going to work? We all agree to just stay within our own borders and I'm supposed to believe that my neighboring capitalist nations will just watch a socialist revolution going on and be like: "Heh I won't send in some death squads to help squash that."
But I'm ngl I don't see a way out of this. I think someone bigger is eventually just going to shallow us. I have been trying to find a more appealing proposal for the locals, but everything is either a horror show, slow death or idealistic dreams.
Depends on how small the Eastern European countries you're referring to are.
I personally believe that any country with a population under 80 million people is essentially irrelevant in global politics barring specific circumstances, and should probably merge with its neighbors to get more leverage for development.
I've written earlier that:
Of course, merging into larger states is unlikely to happen under bourgeois control because national bourgeoisies like to enjoy the minor insignificant spoil of leading a tiny country rather than joining up for the greater good. Also, Western capitalist powers enjoy the ease of pushing around these tiny countries, which might become harder to push around if they merged into larger collectives.
Yeah I suppose that's the crux of communism, it's a David vs Goliath scenario and even though a better version of USSR seems like an impossibility to me, that's probably where we'll end up and I'm sure it won't be called that and I probably won't get to see it, the more the bourgeoise class weaken the more room I have to breathe.
There's just this voice inside me telling me we'll suffer the same fate as the Spartacus league and that's the decent outcome, which just honestly really sucks even if it's inevitable and nothing can be done. Damn nato and everything they stand for.
Yeah, and that is also why recent Chinese history is a huge part of the education system from a very young age.