It doesn't matter what the country pretends to want to be, as soon as it gets too powerful you always end up with some asshole dictator, whether they're called Putin (need a good nickname for him, getting tired of having to write that name every time), Cheeto, or pooh Bear. These so called leaders should all hang for the crimes they've committed

So with that said, why the China worship, why the pretence they China can do no wrong? This is literally "US propaganda baaaad, China propaganda goooood"

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 15 points 12 hours ago (3 children)

China can do wrong, though. I wish they were stronger when it came to foreign policy, and they are lagging in queer rights. However, both the ideas that China is imperialist and that China is worse than the US Empire are absurd.

The US Empire plunders the global south, expropriating vast amounts of resources and super-exploiting foreign labor, while China engages in mutual cooperation and win-win development. Countries imperialized by the US are underdeveloped, while countries in BRI have rapid development. The US has hundreds of overseas millitary bases, and the PRC has no more than 3. The US Empire is kidnapping leaders and threatening to annex Greenland, while China is engaging in mutual trade.

It doesn’t matter what the country pretends to want to be, as soon as it gets too powerful you always end up with some asshole dictator

This doesn't logically follow. There's nothing about size of country that correlates to having dictators, Cuba under Batista was small but dictatorial, while China is a democracy with 1.4 billion people. The vast majority of Chinese citizens believe the government represents their interests:

Russia couldn't be as bad as the US Empire even if it tried, as it lacks the ability to do so. China is a socialist country. The US is the world hegemon and a dying empire. Entirely different scales of evil here.

pooh Bear

I don't see why it's funny to use a yellow bear to describe a Chinese man.

So with that said, why the China worship, why the pretence they China can do no wrong? This is literally “US propaganda baaaad, China propaganda goooood”

Nobody believes China can do no wrong or that Chinese propaganda is good. If your entire argument relies on strawmen, then it's not really anything useful.

[–] autriyo@feddit.org 0 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

The vast majority of Chinese citizens believe the government represents their interests

I don't think that the belief of being represented is a good metric for democracy or actual representation.

It might be that the Chinese government is doing pretty good in that regard, but the only thing that metric is actually saying is that people are not disillusioned. Wether that's because there is no illusion in the first place or the government is just good at selling itself can't be seen from that data. Although most likely it's a mixed bag, as per usual in life.

[–] LeninWeave@lemmy.ml 7 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

I don't see why it's funny to use a yellow bear to describe a Chinese man.

Oh, I see the problem. You need to become more racist! /s

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 10 hours ago

Oh duh! Should've thought of that /s

[+] CumbrianCucumber@lemmy.world -9 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago) (1 children)

[removed by mod]

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

BRI isn't imperialist, because it results in mutual development. Where the west goes in and plunders and underdevelops the global south, countries in BRI see rising wages and industrialization, escaping the endless trap of imperialism. Does China benefit too? Absolutely. Is it imperialism? No. Here are some good articles:

I don’t know about opinion polls to measure China’s democracy. The CCP have ways of “persuading” citizens to feel like the government respects them. According to the World Press Freedom Index, China actually has the third worst freedom of press in the world, ahead of only North Korea and Eritrea.

The CPC's "ways of persuasion" are continuously improving living conditions and development. China does restrict private press, yes, because it's a socialist country and doesn't want the capitalists it keeps in check abusing the press to undermine the system. Further, data on public support for China is accurate, and isn't the result of any undue manipulation.

The idea of Russia getting a free pass as better than the US simply because it can’t do as much damage is interesting, sort of like an equality vs equity argument, but at the moment Russia’s the only one throwing around literal nuke threats like christmas cracker jokes.

The US Empire is the one plundering the entire global south at the moment. Russia doesn't get a "free pass," but the idea that it's worse than the US Empire is deeply misinformed.

The meme comparing Xi Jingping to Winnie the Pooh has its origins in China, so it’s nothing racial.

It exploded in the west far more than in China, and is most commonly used among racist right wingers.

Since you mentioned that Chinese propaganda isn’t good either, I know you’re arguing in good faith. I’ll also say that before 2025 I would have said China was easily worse than the US, but now I’m not so sure. Either way, it’s comparing mouldy apples to mouldy oranges.

I don't agree that it's comparing mouldy apples to mouldy oranges. It's comparing late-stage imperialism to early-mid stage socialism, a dying empire vs a rising socialist power. Socialism doesn't mean free from problems, but it does mean that it's fundamentally different and regularly improving.

If you want to learn more about China's system, I recommend Roland Boer's Socialism with Chinese Characteristics: A Guide for Foreigners. If you want to learn about Marxism-Leninism, which is what China and other socialist countries use as their baseline ideology, I made an introductory reading list.

[–] Dr_Vindaloo@lemmy.ml 7 points 14 hours ago

In what way is China an empire?

[–] orc_princess@lemmy.ml 13 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

This is what happens when instead of material analysis you default to mainstream media to be honest about its geopolitical enemies.

No one is saying we'll like it if China does bad shit in other countries, but they haven't invaded anywhere in decades even when provoked. Meanwhile the US bombs a few countries a year, and launches a full on invasion every few years, not to mention the unilateral illegal sanctions they impose which kill over half a million people every year. When China does nearly a tiny fraction of that we can talk. In the meantime you're just repeating western propaganda. China develops our countries, the US coups or invades them.

[–] ThirdConsul@lemmy.zip -1 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

And you're doing exactly what OC said is happening on lemmy. Confusing US being awful shit with China being a saint. It's not.

Not invading other countries is a low bar honestly.

And yes, I also think every big country and company should split into smaller ones, because every big country or company inevitably centralizes its power, creates internal nobility class and serf class with no upward mobility.

That includes China. 200m Chinese partake in gig economy making their own serf class. Taizidang making nobility class.

Is China developing like crazy and a better place to live for Chinese people than 40 years ago? Of course. If anyone contests that they are ignorant.

China develops our countries

Don't glorify it just because USA is evil.

See investments in Africa and loan defaults ceding ownership of mineral sources to China. Example - study by a non-Western source https://www.researchgate.net/publication/386200503_China's_Economic_Engagement_in_Africa_A_Study_of_Neo-Colonialism_vs_Development_Partnership

I do agree that OC is wrong calling China worse than USA. Mordor is better than USA.

[–] Darkness343@lemmy.world 8 points 17 hours ago

Their first emperor is a fucking dragon.

Your first president is an ungrateful British colonist.