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Bluesky just verified ICE (lemmy.ml)

submitted 16 hours ago by geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml to c/fediverse@lemmy.world

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[–] balsoft@lemmy.ml 1 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (1 children)

What I am “OK with” has no impact whatsoever in “what actually gets to happen”. I rather not waste my energy on the things that I can not control.

You are in control of which social media you use, and even more so in control about which companies you choose to support or defend. You are currently spending your energy defending a company that is hosting a de-facto nazi account on their servers.

Let me rephrase the question. If a newspaper you enjoy reading started publishing a column from Gestapo, what would you do? Would you boycott and complain? Would you just complain and keep buying it? Or would you keep buying it and defend their actions by "well I can just skip that page with the nazi propaganda on it"?

It would. They would just do it from unverified accounts.

Well, yeah, but that would take effort in creating&advertising new accounts. Why make their nazi jobs easier?

Worse still, they would be able to post it and completely deny it if confronted about it.

There is literally nothing stopping them from doing it now. Having a verified account does not impede their ability to create fake unverified accounts in any way.

Spammers also get to send millions of messages every day for “free”, but we mostly ignore it because we are able to filter them out. Sure, it would be great to completely get rid of spam and the phishing industry… but there is no way to completely get rid of them that does not involve increasing the surveillance aparattus and given more power to a centralized enforcer, so if I have to choose between spammers and corporate-controlled communicatioins, I will take the spammers any day.

I would agree with this (except bluesky is also corporate-controlled). There is no way to completely cut out spam, including nazi spam.

But in this case someone from Bluesky looked at this account which self-identifies as a nazi organization, verified that it belongs to a nazi organization, and hasn't banned it. It is clearly different.

[–] rglullis@communick.news 2 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

you are in control of which social media you use

I don't use or support Bluesky.

You are currently spending your energy defending a company

I'm not defending anyone. I am just looking at a stated claim (Bluesky is as bad as Twitter because they verified ICE) and evaluating if it has merits. I don't think it does.

If a newspaper you enjoy reading

The "newspaper I enjoy reading" is the WWW. The reason that I don't buy newspapers is because I want to keep the power to curate the information that I receive. As long as I am reasonably in control of the information that I can access, I see no point in complaining about it.

If you want to make a parallel to Reddit: despite it being 99% filled with crap that I don't care about, I could use it just fine and ignore all the drama. But when they decided to change the terms of the API and they were trying to force the specific channel to use to access it, then I immediately "stopped enjoying it" and went on to work on a solution to be back in control.

[–] balsoft@lemmy.ml 1 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

I'm not defending anyone. I am just looking at a stated claim (Bluesky is as bad as Twitter because they verified ICE) and evaluating if it has merits.

I don't think that's the claim, at least that's not the way I'm reading it.

Here is the quote we are discussing:

Wow. Bluesky has just welcomed and verified ICE.

For anyone still thinking Bsky is a real alternative to Twitter: No, it's not.

Mastodon is. Bsky is just X at its infancy.

Let me spell it out the way I understand it:

Bluesky is knowingly hosting nazis. The verification here just displays the mens rea: rather than them just not noticing the account, they know about it and still haven't banned it.

Bluesky is not as bad as Twitter right now. However, this is the quintessential beginning of a Nazi bar, which means it will eventually become as bad as Twitter.

The Fediverse is not knowingly hosting nazis. Instances ban nazi accounts, and those that don't are considered nazi instances and are quickly defederated by 99% of other instances. This is the minimum that I expect of Bluesky too, since it's a centralized platform and should be better at moderation.

As long as I am reasonably in control of the information that I can access, I see no point in complaining about it.

I think there is a significant problem in platforming nazis. It gives this vile ideology a voice and a means to spread. Especially given the state of media literacy and critical thinking in the West, a lot of people don't know how to control which information they see, and makes them susceptible to this manipulation. Fascism is rising through social media misinfo right now, as we discuss this, so it is very important to complain about it as loud as possible.