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their obsession with genome analysis / where one of their great-great-grandfathers came from.
"i am italian, german, polish, chinese and cree!" "no, you are us-citizen and don't speak any language but english."
The whole ethnic identity is mostly to identify where in the world you ethnically originated from to other Americans. Because almost every single person in the US is either an immigrant, or a descendent of one. So we identify to each other where we came from as Americans.
Where people go wrong with this is if they happen to be traveling internationally and take this US centric identity with them. If traveling internationally, you could be ethnically from the place you are traveling. But in that context, you'd be American. This is a part of that whole well traveled awareness thing.
The genealogy thing is their curiosity in tracing that ethnic origin with greater detail. I personally don't find it too interesting myself, but different strokes.
Edit: I'd like to add, this is mostly in case other people reading this thread are wondering why this is even a thing. It's truly an annoying behavior.
Really, I think a far more charitable (and common) instance of this is an american, say, travelling to Ireland and noting that they actually have Irish heritage. And then some nice local appreciates their interest and they have something to talk about. American tourists these days don't seem any more annoying or tone deaf than, say German, Israeli, or UK tourists. If you encounter a tourist off the beaten path, then they are almost always polite, curious, and a very nice person. And if you are hanging out where the big bus tourists congregate... well, what did you expect? They are dumbasses fishing for selfies - the lowest common denominator doesnt differentiate based on nationality.
You're not wrong, this is totally a thing. I'm a euro mutt (I coin for myself) and I can trace some lines.
It's because were all immigrants in a young country. Even the census we take asks where we hail from. I've maked "American" on it the last two times. It is a deal here, and yes it can be annoying especially when you get the tropes going. "Oh my family is Italian we like big families" mean while I'm fourth gen Italian (mixed obvs) and like what, are you inbreeding to stay Italian? Your husbands last name is "smith" like, fuck off. My full first gen Italian great grandmother married a first gen polack and had one kid. One. Fuck off with your stereotypes. This bitch I'm thinking of feed her kids all the american processed foods, give no fucks about the quality of her food ingredients or where they come from, just fuck off "were Italian" bitch shut up.
Yep. And so many white people here claim native ancestry. "I'm 1/16th Cherokee" they'll say. Usually it is Cherokee because that's the group their parents or grandparents had heard of and told them. I think it comes from trying to absolve the guilty feelings of what the settlers did to the natives.
The genealogy conversations are just tiring and predictable.
So many! I think it was possibly, a almost pop culture trend in the 70s to claim native history tbh. So many folks I met who do this would have been teens/young adults in that time. But you're probably right, it's some warped cope for the atrocities committed against native people. Fucking warped.
Potentially annoying American here with a point of clarification: is it annoying just to be interested in one’s heritage, or is it Americans that make that heritage their entire personality?
the identity thing. as far as i see it's usually white people who do this. to gain ethnic distinction?
sure its fun to find out more abt what your granparents did (unless you are german).
Also never forget that these gene tests are almost fraudulent. Mostly bull.
I think a lot of it stems from living in a relatively young, immigration heavy, multicultural country and the little conversations that arise from that.
At least in the city I grew up and still live in I have met a lot of people who either immigrated or whose parents immigrated from other countries. In high school human geography I learned it takes a couple generations for an immigrant family to fully assimilate into a new culture, so a lot of these first/second generation immigrants still have connections and traditions from their family’s old country. The history of those countries (or at least the regions modern countries occupy) stretch back hundreds to thousands of years. I think many caucasian Americans, often raised to be competitive, want that sense of history when comparing to their own family but American culture has “only” developed over the past 300-400 years. To get an older/deeper sense of heritage they have to ask where their ancestors that immigrated to the US immigrated from, and because a sense of superiority is at least some part of American culture that older heritage has to be better than the other older heritages and therefore something to be loud and proud about. Even if it isn’t actually a big part of one’s life.
All that to say yes I think you’re right about it being a matter of ethnic distinction, which I think is brought about by the circumstances of US history. I definitely get how it’s annoying.
I’m an immigrant in the U.S. When my accent gives me away, I’m often asked where I’m from, which somehow leads to the discovery that the other person is also Irish. Or Scottish. Usually Irish.
I’m not offended so much as confused. “I am Irish” carries an expectation of shared culture and experience. When that’s clearly not what’s being offered, it lands less as connection and more hollow. Offense arises when clichés or affected accents appear. That’s no longer about identity; it’s just being an eejit.
I also find it maddening, not only because it's silly, but because the analysis is largely crap anyhow.
My mother's family touted their "Irish heritage for three generations", then quickly shut up when their genome analysis "proved" they were instead largely English. I've had to point out Ireland and England's relative positions and ask them if they thought anyone in our ancestry might have ever moved from island to island. Maybe consider that they were from somewhere else in Europe even earlier? Now they're "Irish" again.
Point entirely missed, JFC. They were Irish, their ancestors were maybe English, and way back, their ancestors were definitely African, but I don't see them getting into African cultural heritage. Thankfully.
You're United Statesians. I get the draw: they're looking for genuine but effort-free connection, identity, and belonging in a country whose dominant culture is homogenization, commoditization, and exploitation, but their search for culture through tenuous connections to long-dead ancestors instead of family, friends, and neighbors is just as hollow and unfulfilling.
Don't obsess about great³-Grandpa Pádraig's life harvesting peat from the bogs; he's long dead and probably would have hated you. Embrace what and where you are and utilize and improve what you actually have.
"English, Scotch, Welch and Irish" always drives me nuts. You can't even pronounce one of them correctly; how is that honouring your "heritage"?
no, they're literally 25% grape juice
They're Americans so grape jelly.
In America, juice and jelly have the same sugar and fake ingredient contents.
And I also wonder how the machines that create these results even manage to distinguish between, say, English and Welsh "genes". I mean sure, there's some science behind it. 0.1% to be precise.
I can tell you, I'm a real molecular/microbiologist!
Tl;Dr: It's mostly bunk.
Most of these services don't analyze your entire genome*, but instead just regions of genes, looking for something called SNPs: single nucleotide polymorphisms. DNA is composed of four nucleobases, commonly represented by their initials: T and A, C and G. A SNP is a spot on a gene where there's some variability in these, e.g., a C or A or even a T instead of a common G.
Through whole genome sequencing and statistical analysis, these companies were able to identify frequency trends in SNPs according to where the person lives and their self-reported ancestry. Now they use a cheaper, less comprehensive (but still fairly accurate) process to look for the SNPs that data suggests are most strongly correlated with different regions/ancestries and dole out your supposed ancestry.
There are problems.
Conclusions are only as good as your data, and the data are often based strongly on self-reporting, which in science terms is often referred to as "super fucking inaccurate".
SNPs aren't static - every child has some, about 20 to 60, that their parents don't have. Many detrimental SNPs can lead to death, so most that persist have no effect, though some are weakly detrimental or, even more rarely, beneficial. That means there's a limited pool of viable options, so your kid might have spontaneously developed a few strongly associated with a region they're not at all connected to. You have a few too, as does your coparent and all of your parents. Through a couple of generations of new SNPs, a person's ancestry results can shift. Through random chance and no new SNPs, one might inherit a combination of SNPs commonly seen in other regions, simply through the right combination of ancestors not at all from that area.
Some SNPs are better than others. Those on what are called "highly conserved" genes, i.e., fuck this gene up at all and you die, tend to be less common and more stable. If a defined group has an unusual SNP or SNPs on these regions, it's a far better indicator of relatedness than a SNP on a gene for something like vitamin C synthesis, which we have but the process is broken so it doesn't matter if we break it more.
In summary, these services are built on data of varying quality (shitty data) and moving targets of variable utility (shitty targets).
Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.
*If you can swing it, genome sequencing and analysis can be really interesting and useful for healthcare decisions. You can learn a lot about how you, specifically, work, and we're learning more all the time.
Just be sure to get sufficient sequencing coverage, at least 30x if you want "good enough", 100x or more if it's medically vital and/or you're looking for rare genes. 1x is fairly worthless, paying for it is a waste of money.
Thanks for your comment! It does sound like they applied barely enough (bad) science that they cannot be accused of defrauding their customers.
Apart from the shitty targets, I'm extremely put off by the self-reporting. While I could get fairly accurate knowledge from my dad, I still would have trouble defining which countries my ancestors were from, and anything beyond my great-great-grandparents is lost in the mists anyhow.
Do these commercial gene analyses treat Central Europe as one big entity?
BTW, have you considered that if you become a professional molecular/microbiologist you might be facing similar (if lesser) problematic situations most of the time?
I've always understood it to be a remnant of a culture that de-emphasized genealogy and family pedigree, and had a lot more cultural and ethnic mixing in marriages at an earlier era. In Europe, it seems like there are a lot more family crests and aristocratic titles, from centuries of families maneuvering for political power through strategic marriages and what not, and stronger cultural taboos against marrying and having children outside of one's ethnic group (and religion), at least up until maybe World War II.
So if there's just less to learn from DNA testing (a person who happens to already have records of all 16 of their great-great-grandparents, who all lived in the same geographical area), I'd expect there not to be much demand for that kind of analysis.
Or maybe I'm wrong to focus on the gentry and aristocratic families, and have a misplaced view of how long that kind of stuff culturally persisted in Europe.
"germans", "french", "danes" weren't a thing. up until recently. they are genetically diverse groups.
euros aren't all nobles. i don't know my grandmas maiden names.
there was a lot of movement (read: fucking around) in europe. what do these tests even mean by "dutch"?
I was under the impression that the DNA kits described actual ethnic groups and showed a map of the distribution of those groups overlaid on modern political borders or region names. Here's the page on 23 and Me's reports, which have a lot more granular detail, mapped onto modern political borders for reference, but where any listed nation or territory may have up to dozens of different sub-groups listed.
Jay parlay Francsays trey beein. Jaytude on laycole quart ans.
if i had the power to do so, i'd give you a french passport right away.
maybe clearing this up: germany has a hereditary citizenship. i. e. children of germans can get a german passport.
being "german" means owning german citizenship (or citizenship of the one of the former constructs the federal republic sees as its precursors), not owning a set of genes. you can have no 'distinct european genes' (e.g. be ainu?) at all and get citizenship for your kids, as long as you have it. you can be "genetically german" and still don't have a passport.
jus sanguinis usually isn't genetically defined