Works out most of the time.
Only when they ask why the estimate is so long, then you explain your reasoning behind it, and then they might reply with your statement and block your refactoring idea.

However, getting time to refactor most of the time, is aleady way better then never being allowed to do so.

[–] galoisghost@aussie.zone 4 points 18 hours ago (2 children)

I have more than 20 years experience. I’ve never once not gotten the “can we do it without refactoring?” question. Bad managers? Not necessarily, the pressure always comes from above. Short term thinking always wins out in the for profit private sector.

[–] fx242@lemmy.world 2 points 18 hours ago

In my case those almost never pass. Maybe you're the only one exclusively working on that system...? When you're one of a number of contractors competing to do something in software that cannot be regulated, you're basically screwed.

[–] IcyToes@sh.itjust.works 2 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

Then you don't give another option and only give estimates for doing it correctly.

If you're saying "I could hack it in for you this way", you're a cowboy dev.

[–] galoisghost@aussie.zone 1 points 18 hours ago

LOL! OK sure.

[–] IcyToes@sh.itjust.works 2 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

How can they block? Usually they cannot code so cannot do it themselves. Working in a place that micromanages you this badly must by soul destroying and degrading. Job sites are a good option.

[–] Rikj000@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

By not accepting your time estimate,
requesting your reasoning why it takes that long, you explaining you calculated time in for refactoring, then rejecting your idea and granting you only time to implement the new thing, without granting time for refactoring.

And dw, my project manager is a pretty chill friend and fellow senior developer, who is reasonable and helps me with calculating in time for refactoring whenever possible/nessecary.

It's only higher up, CEOs/management, who seek to cut corners, with rocks for brains, who don't see that in the long run such practices are bad for business.

Which sadly is the case for most IT businesses. But at least in my workplace the project manager is not a rat & on the side of the developers.

[–] IcyToes@sh.itjust.works 1 points 16 hours ago

That ain't pretty. In the UK, there is much more trust and less micromanagement, though it's important devs learn to be assertive, communicate well and don't give too much info to be hanged with. The way you communicate can determine his much time you free for yourself. A baker never asks of they can use flour and egg or negotiate on cook time.

Context is important though and if folk find themselves in the cheapest price consultancy, they probably need to find their way out for their own self-respect and mental health. When you find your way into an org that wants to build quality stuff, it's much happier for them.

[–] IcyToes@sh.itjust.works 2 points 18 hours ago

Depends where you work.

If you're good and they respect you , you'll get away with "no" or, "I'll build it, but if it goes wrong, I'm not fixing this evening and weekends". Safest option is "in all honesty, I cannot see another credible option, no" and if you're fed up of the follow up, drop the word credible.