Linux

60166 readers

735 users here now

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

Rules

Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.
No misinformation
No NSFW content
No hate speech, bigotry, etc

Related Communities

Community icon by Alpár-Etele Méder, licensed under CC BY 3.0

founded 6 years ago

MODERATORS

nooter692@lemmy.ml

AgreeableLandscape@lemmy.ml

MarcellusDrum@lemmy.ml

cypherpunks@lemmy.ml

cyclohexane@lemmy.ml

d3Xt3r@lemmy.nz

273

The (successful) end of the kernel Rust experiment (lwn.net)

submitted 3 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) by HaraldvonBlauzahn@feddit.org to c/linux@lemmy.ml

51 comments fedilink hide all child comments

The topic of the Rust experiment was just discussed at the annual Maintainers Summit. The consensus among the assembled developers is that Rust in the kernel is no longer experimental — it is now a core part of the kernel and is here to stay. So the "experimental" tag will be coming off. Congratulations are in order for all of the Rust for Linux team.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments

[–] HaraldvonBlauzahn@feddit.org 15 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Enjoy! I don't know what you used to seriously program on but I am willing to bet that the ownership paradigm that it enforces is going to feel at least moderately new to you, unless you forced yourself to code that way anyways.

Thinking about ownership is the right way e.g. for C++ as well, so if one has coded professionally in larger systems, it should not be too alien.

One still needs to learn life time annotations. So, assuming that you know, for example, C++, it is an a bit larger hurdle than picking up Java or Go, but it is worth the time.

In many aspects, Rust is far more productive and also more beginner-friendly than C++:

far better compiler error messages
a superb and easy-to-use packaging system
Unicode support
support for unit testing right in the language
strong support for a side-effect-free or "functional programming" style which is great for testing and tasks like data analysis or parsing
better modularization
avoids implementation inheritance, and the trait system is a bit different but superb
no undefined behavior (in safe Rust) which means nothing less than that the code does what it says - and this is extremely useful in larger projects
great support for safe concurrency
the language and library frees one to think about interfaces and algorithms which is where the big wins for performance are hidden (and IMO one of the key factors for the astounding success of Python).

I could go on... but I need to do other stuff

[–] TriangleSpecialist@lemmy.world 6 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Thanks for the detailed answer. Preaching to the choir.

The existence of the concept of ownership in languages like C++ is why I threw "moderately" in there. I agree depending on what you take that to mean, it may or may not do some heavy lifting.

For the rest, I'd divide it into hard facts (compiler messages are absolutely undeniable, in any circumstance) and things that can definitely be true depending on your personal use cases. I'm with you on this: for the vast vast majority of tasks commonly understood as software engineering, memory safety is a concern, and a lot, if not all, of your points, are valid.

I must humbly insist that it does not fit my needs, in the sense that memory safety is of no concern to me, and that the restrictions that a compiler-enforced approach imposes make me less productive, and, subjectively, also less enjoyable because causing more friction.

That being said, you may also not consider what I'm currently doing to be software engineering, and that's totally fine. Then we'd agree entirely.

EDIT: also, there are very few languages less productive and beginner-friendly than C++ in my opinion. The proverbial bar is in hell. But you are talking to an unreasonable C++ hater.

[–] HaraldvonBlauzahn@feddit.org 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

EDIT: also, there are very few languages less productive and beginner-friendly than C++ in my opinion.

I am a professional C++ developer with 20 years of experience and have worked in about eight other languages professionally, while learning and using a dozen more in hobby projects.

I agree with you here. The only areas where specifics are worse are package management in Python, and maintainability of large SIMULINK models.

[–] TriangleSpecialist@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

That's the sort of indictment of C++ I like to hear. It's not just me then. I sometimes feel like I'm taking crazy pills with some colleagues who are super enthusiastic about it still.

But again, I'm stupid, I know I'm stupid, and C++ has way too many features and convoluted behaviours which are hard for me to remember and reason about. It often feels like it makes me think more about the language problems than the actual problem I'm supposed to work on. It may say more about me than the language, but I do feel validated with comments like this.

[–] jaybone@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 days ago (2 children)

What’s wrong with implementation inheritance? Don’t you want that?

[–] HaraldvonBlauzahn@feddit.org 7 points 2 days ago

Generally no. As soon as a class hierarchy becomes moderately complex, implementation inheritance makes code very hard to maintain, because you need to read the whole stack of classes to see what a single change will actually do.

Rust has another system, traits and trait implementations.

[–] pr06lefs@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

The consensus seems to be that implementation inheritance leads to code that is difficult to understand and difficult to reuse. Its perhaps the main reason C++ is banned from the kernel.