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this post was submitted on 30 Nov 2025
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Slop.
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For posting all the anonymous reactionary bullshit that you can't post anywhere else.
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Right off the bat, you are wrong. You make it sound like the Constitution was handled in secrecy, and then just sprung on the new nation, but that's not the case at all. The Constitutional Convention was widely known, completely open, with representatives from every state, and constant updates in the press. It wasn't a spectator sport, but the citizens certainly knew it was being debated, and could make their opinions known to their representatives.
And if they were so hot to keep any representation from the people, why did they include the House of Representatives, so all people, no matter how rural or isolated they were, could have a representative in their government?
If they wanted to keep everything for the wealthy, they would have structured the government with the power concentrated in the Executive Branch, but they didn't, they split the power so no single person or entity could dominate. The only reason it is falling apart now is because one group has decided to not respect the Constitution, not honor their responsibilities, and tear down the walls between branches.
Their representatives? So before the constitution, they had representatives who were worried about what the average person wanted? What need was there for the constitution then???
That's very simple, they included that to try to trick the people into thinking they had a stake in the government. Why else would they also create the Senate, which presides over the House and affords two Senators per state, gutting any kind of representative democratic ideal when there is no proportional representation. Giant states get two Senators and tiny states get two Senators. I have already addressed this and asked you about it, but you refuse to grapple with this basic and intentional limitation to actual democracy as written in the Constitution.
If the document requires "respect" to work and does not have clear legal guidelines and punishments for failure to "respect" it, it's a shitty and useless document. And not for nothing, "tearing down the walls between branches" is a process that has been enacted since day one on the signing of the Constitution. The House and Senate have spent hundreds of years handing off power to the Executive.
You have a grade schooler's idea of freedom and democracy.
I have a degree in history. YOU are the one claiming that the Founding Fathers wrote "tricks" into the Constitution to fool the citizens. I don't think I'm the one with childish ideas.
Oh my, a degree in history and yet you still refuse to even acknowledge the Senate and don't seem to be willing to define "democracy". You must know that if you dig into either of those questions you'll be lost without a map trying to justify a definition of democracy that does not grant every person the same voting power.
I'm not sure why you feel the Senate is somehow the lone proof of the Founding Father's "secret tricks," that's a pretty weird hill to die on. And I wasn't aware that I was expected to define Democracy. I could easily do that, with a simple definition of "electing one's own leaders," but I'm sure you wouldn't accept that definition, nor literally any other definition I would offer, including verbatim quotes from accepted dictionaries.
This forum has an agenda, and I understand that, but it's too bad that real debate isn't allowed here, just bad-faith confirmation bias. You should start with the new Ken Burns documentary on the American Revolution, which did not flinch from acknowledging many of the contradictions of the Founding Fathers, while still acknowledging the overwhelming influence that the American Revolution, and the Constitution, had on every future government of the next 250 year. It is a fact that while America is a very flawed system, it has still had an overall positive effect on the world. Without the inspiration of the American Revolution and the Constitution, this planet would still be bogged down in monarchal governmental systems in which nearly every human is literally a slave to their King. If you live in a "free" country, and elect your own leaders, you can thank America for bringing that system to world.
As flawed as America is, they changed the world for the better, whether the people in this forum want to believe it or not.
I don't feel it's the lone proof and nothing I've said would suggest that - I simply want you to respond to the critiques of the constitution which you have so far largely avoided. If you define democracy as electing one's own leaders, tell me about the electoral college. That's an institution that is very easy to understand as a handbrake on democracy - I'm sure even you can suss that one out if you spend a little time thinking about it. Work through that one and let me know how it's democratic.
We'd love to debate you if you would actually address the critiques, but you won't. Is it because your undergrad degree was a participation trophy? Is it because you know you can't do it? Hard to say.
You still didn't address the Senate at all. This is why I keep bringing it up. You refuse to address it. We can move on to the electoral college afterwards and even more explicit obvious anti-democratic levers the founders chose, but until then it's remedial debate with a guy who claims to want to debate but continues to be terrified of actually doing it.
If you're not a teenager you should probably feel deeply embarrassed and just delete all of this and maybe rethink your life.