Bullshit. I've got a 250w pedelec and I've pulled large loads - 20/30kg - uphill in a headwind. I literally got my bike converted to a pedelec due to knee injuries and I'm managing that shit regularly.

is it effortless? No. But that's not the point of a friggin' ebike. It's not a car or a moped. It's a pushy with assistance.

[–] ada@piefed.blahaj.zone 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (10 children)

I'm old enough to be past my physical prime, and I don't own a car. I use my ebike for everything. 250W is fine when your goal is exercise, or commuting, or the odd load here and there, but it just doesn't cut it for every day use.

Before I owned my ebike, I had a regular road bike that I did 15,000km on. But the only time it got used is when I was commuting or "going for a ride". It was completely useless as a tool in my daily life. My ebike though sees regular use for things that most people would use a car for, and things that a road bike just couldn't do.

I have absolutely no problem with bikes being capped at 25km. And I have zero problem with taking away throttles above 6km/h too. I don't want speed. I want something I can use to remain car free

[–] yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 18 hours ago (2 children)

but it doesn't cut it for every day use

Can you explain why? Sure, it's less than 500 W and there will necessarily be situations where it's not enough. But how would you know it's insufficient for every day use without trying? If it were, say, 99% as effective it would (probably) be fine, no?

Unless of course you have experience with a 250 W ebike but (from your comments) it looks like you only ever had a single 500 W ebike. Is it possible to limit it to 250 W and seeing how much it changes?

[–] Zagorath@aussie.zone 3 points 15 hours ago

Can you explain why?

Look at the comparison I did elsewhere in the thread. One hill I know of and have climbed many times, going up at just 12 km/h, I'm putting out over 500 W at some points. And that's on a carbon analogue bike, as a lighter-than-average dude, carrying nothing more than a bottle of water. I'm out of the saddle, working my arse off to get up that hill.

As a cycling advocate, that's unacceptably difficult. Great for when cycling for fun or fitness, but as an advocate, I do not want people to have to exert themselves that much just to get around. I try to set a baseline effort of 100 W, but up to 200 W for brief periods is not unreasonable. 250 W (plus a 250 W motor) when climbing up a hill even with the lightest possible load, which would easily become 500+ W (plus the 250 W motor) on the way home from shopping or transporting kids to their cricket training, is not reasonable. I want cycling to be accessible to as many people as possible. It has the potential to be a far more accessible form of transport than driving is, if our network design and laws allow it to be. A Dutch-style network is by far the most important thing and would work for 80%+ of potential cyclists, 60%ish of the time.

But to get that last 20% of cyclists 100% of the time, laws designed for the famously flat Netherlands are not necessarily appropriate. And that could include allowing up to 500 W motors. Especially with the NSW law, which states the power must be

progressively reduced as the bicycle’s speed increases beyond 6km/h.

So (assuming it's linear), at 16 km/h you'd be getting about 250 W of assistance, maximum. At 20 km/h you're down to 132 W, and at 23 km/h it's just 52 W. To do that 12 km/h up the hill I was talking about, you'd get about 340 W of assistance, or go down to 10 km/h and get 390 W, plus 1–200 W from your legs, which should be enough to get an older or less physically capable cyclist up the hill with their shopping or (grand)kids.

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