I feel like the idea that it is China's job to run in and save everyone is super cynical. It's not their job or responsibility because they are still managing the vestiges and threats of western imperialism themselves. Further, all these criticisms of China's lack of intervention is really insincere by the liberals who try and "call it out." They don't want the west to save Gaza and they damn sure don't want China to do it. They want to point at China and criticize it for doing interventionism should it commit while being smug that they haven't yet. To this kind of person, no matter what China does, it is wrong.

TLDR: this is the west's problem. The west created it. The west fueled it. They can't pawn off the moral responsibility on China.

[–] SevenSkalls@hexbear.net 10 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

Cuba, Vietnam, North Korea, Angola, and tons of other nascent revolutionary movements would have failed if the USSR, or even China, took that point of view before. It's fine to stand up for what's right and help the local people achieve freedom and sovereignty.

Maybe they're afraid of being another USSR, but it could end up making them alone in a world surrounded by allies and puppets of the West, which isn't a good position to be in either. The USSR failed more because it couldn't strip liberalism from its leadership. If anything, helping these other movements probably helped the USSR survive longer, because they were able to sustain an alternative economy in the world order by trading with these other states that survived and owed their existence to it. When it fell, it set these other states and various communist movements back decades, and has forced many of them to become more liberal to survive.

I think China is now at the level the USSR was at before. They are undoubtedly another super power and being able to fend off the US tariffs has proven that. It's time to actually start using that, because the US and West definitely does and it's made them the strongest hegemon in the world since WW2, and they don't tolerate other hegemons. The earlier they support the states that are resisting US imperialism (like what they're doing by supporting Russia and should be doing with Palestine and Iran) the longer it will be and easier it will be when the US finally attacks China.

Tl;dr: Saying it's the West's responsibility to end this because they started it and "moral responsibility" is naive and dooming the Palestinians to the same fate as the indigenous populations of North America or Australia. International solidarity is the only chance for communists in a neoliberal world. The capitalists have it, we need it, too.

[–] LaughingLion@hexbear.net 4 points 5 days ago

I must repeat: China is not our "white savior" nor should we expect them to be.

If you want to discuss strategy for ultimately defeating the US (which you play with in your reply) then it benefits them to let the USA get bogged down in ground operations in the region once again rather than attempt to prevent it. It isn't a good moral position for them but it is strategically sound.

[–] BynarsAreOk@hexbear.net 3 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

This type of comment is exactly why I choose to not be active in this site anymore, the essence of why socialism is dead.

Asking for solidarity has been reduced to "forever war" as a cudgel to just crush any sort of reasonable discussion or strategy.

I'll be honest, your style is absolutely pathetic. Have you watched the last 4 years of garbage grifiting pro-China and pro-Russia narratives that the US MIC is washed out? Haven`t you learned by the "experts" that the US can't run a real war for longer than 30 days without running out of ammo and the F-35s apparently are a couple of sorties away from just sponteniously combusting?

Who are you when the same Marxist-Lenist pro-China discourse grifters spent a whole fucking month circle jerking a military paradade, apparently the PLA is so fucking advanced the Trump may well sign the resignation papers right now, forget the supersoldiers landing in Gaza, every US Army general gets chills when he sees the stealth figthers and the hypersonic missiles... Its all true btw, I saw it on a fucking CGTN article.

Something must give, either the online ML communities are completely useless headless chickens following other useless grifters or... we actualy believe at least some of this is true therefore you have no excuse. China is militarily superior in some way that is more than enough to use as leverage for a fight for global socialism.

Yet after experiencing this for 4 years, now these explainers have the audacity to once again pull the smol bean China can't help but finance a genocide and throw away the global working class. We pick the first choice then, we're all clueless headless chickens who know nothing, following grifters who just say "China good" and "China wins doing nothing" when the reality is the US can snap their fingers and send China right back to the stone age.

Look, seriously and without memes now. If you actualy care, you'd know by now that there are dozens of different actions China could have taken, including and specialy the BDS movement which got global support. This is inexcusable and got nothing to do with this silly childish hyperbole "oh but you're so naive you think the PLA can just liberate Gaza", please take your head out of your ass.

Even the smallest anti-Israel actions we demand have been rejected, there is no point using a hyperbole to prove a point. The CPC has proven to be a social fascist party not very different from western left liberals. If this wasn't the case they wouldn't even consider allowing the continuation, let alone proposal of neoliberal reformism in China while pushing happy face imperialism on others. I have wrote extensibly about this, but yeah, I take one day to randomly check HB and I get reminded why ML(the pro-China chauvinist version) is a literal meme.

[–] LaughingLion@hexbear.net 2 points 3 days ago

I wrote a thought out response and unfortunately a misclick ate it and I can't be assed to redo it.

Short points:

I stand firm on what I said, China has no responsibility to fix the issues the west has created. They are not your "white savior" and nothing you've said here even approaches a mildly convincing point to the contrary.

I have seen how unprepared the USA is in regards to sustaining operations which actually makes their decision not to prevent this more strategically sound. Smart of China to let the USA walk itself into another demoralizing and costly quandary. You've made a convincing point that this was a smart decision by them.

Lastly, You've pegged me wrong. I actually think China COULD defeat the USA. I'm saying they have no obligation to at this moment. When the USA is openly telling nations that opposition to this is an "act of war" I think it is unethical for westerners demand that China put over a billion of their citizens lives and livelihoods on the line. It's so juvenile that it in itself is a joke.

And by all means, feel free to be more inactive.

[–] into_highest_invite@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 5 days ago (1 children)

i think you can criticize an AES state for refusing to be internationalist. it's not just about moral responsibility, it's a bad move too. moreover, their constant collaboration with the zionist entity makes them more than just noninterventionist. it isn't good

[–] LaughingLion@hexbear.net 4 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I think in a very cynical way it could be an advantageous move for them. Let the USA get bogged down in ground operations in the region again against a highly motivated and experienced guerilla force. Not only that but it has the potential to further demoralize the American public of military adventurism. To say it is a "bad move" is only such in regards to the whining of internet leftists and frankly when push comes to shove for China, internet leftists will not provide them with any strategic advantages.

[–] into_highest_invite@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 4 days ago (1 children)

i guess i didn't say it in my comment but i think i was referring more to the constant collaboration with the zionist entity: the drones and the infrastructure and stuff

[–] LaughingLion@hexbear.net 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

sure, and the constant collaboration with with iran and other entities supplying the anti-zionist forces. they simply do not see this the way you do. hell, chinese drone companies are selling parts to both russia and ukraine at the same time from the same factories.

[–] into_highest_invite@lemmygrad.ml 0 points 3 days ago

which is disappointing for an AES state, and likely to be a mistake. you don't "let the usa get bogged down" by constantly working with their colonies. russia-ukraine is a whole different thing. israel-palestine is american imperialism at its worst. china isn't gonna bring about the victory of the international proletariat, and they're not gonna ensure their own security, by collaborating with the worst excesses of imperialism there are. i've heard they're trying to stem the flow of drones though, so that's heartening, at least. i hope they have an angle for the infrastructure deals, otherwise they're just strengthening zionism at no benefit to anyone besides capital