this post was submitted on 19 Nov 2025
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Industry Minister Mélanie Joly pitted two giant defence companies against one another on Tuesday for the future of Canada's fighter fleet, saying the $27-billion contract to buy 88 U.S.-made F-35 jets doesn’t deliver enough jobs for workers in this country and that the public expects a better deal.

In perhaps her most pointed comments to date, Joly acknowledged publicly that the federal government was talking with Swedish defence contractor Saab, which has promised to bring thousands of aerospace manufacturing jobs to the country in the assembly of its Gripen E fighter jet.

"We think that we can use military procurement to get more,” Joly told reporters. “That is why we're looking, indeed, at the Gripen."

She said Saab is offering 10,000 jobs.

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[–] Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works 8 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I don't think there's going to be any movement on this until the two tariff related cases clear the US supreme court.

The F-35 deal is a major bargaining chip in our negotiations with the US, and those negotiations aren't going to go anywhere until we know what we're negotiating against. If the supreme court strikes down Trump's ability to tariff under the IEEPA, that absolutely destroys his leverage. We know that his own party have already voted against his tariff agenda multiple times, so the only way he can do this is by going around Congress. If he loses that option, he's suddenly playing with a completely empty hand, while we still hold all the same cards we did from the start.

I suspect that's why this "Review" is taking so long. The government is going to want to have it say whatever backs up their position with the US, and right now they don't yet know what that position will ultimately be. What we do know is that Saab's eagerness to make a deal gives us more leverage because we can very credibly threaten Lockheed (who basically own the US government) with walking away. After all, 10,000 jobs and total ownership of the production pipeline is pretty tempting.

[–] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 3 points 4 days ago (2 children)

If the supreme court strikes down Trump's ability to tariff under the IEEPA,

In that instance, Trump is likely to either find another loophole (whether valid or not) to exploit for the next 10 months until the court can try and stop him again, or ignore the ruling completely.

[–] Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works 1 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

We already know what the other hypothetical loopholes are. None of them would offer him as much freedom to implement tariffs as the one he's currently trying to use. That's why he's using it in the first place.

As for ignoring the courts, I think it's really important to understand that:

  1. Trump hasn't actually followed through on that threat any of the times he's made it so far... They've dragged their heels on a lot of things, but they've never actually managed to fully defy a court order yet. That's why Abrego Garcia isn't in El Salvador. If the Trump admin were actually confident they had the ability to flat out ignore the courts, that guy would still be rotting in Bukele's black site.

  2. This is very, very different from ordering ICE to bully immigrants. The Trump admin continuing to enforce a tariff that the courts had struck down would immediately crash the US bond market. Remember when bonds got a little "yippy" and Trump chickened the fuck out? This would be a thousand times worse. Because any tariffs collected by the admin would, eventually, have to be paid back once the rule of law prevails. Yes, I can already see you gearing up to say that the rule of law will never prevail, there won't a 2028 election, etc, etc. I know all that, but international bond markets don't. They are hidebound stuffy old institutions fully of neoliberals who expect norms and rule of law to prevail. Which means that the US putting itself in a situation where it will be forced to repay potentially trillions of dollars in illegally collected taxes (depending on how long the tariffs are illegally enforced for) will look an awful like a serious likelihood of a country going bankrupt or defaulting on its debts. That's the sort of thing that sends bond markets spiralling. Liz Truss collapsed the UK bond market and her own prime ministership by doing far, far less.

[–] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

You are more optimistic than I am about how Trump and his puppeteers will react.

I hope some semblance of sanity can eventually prevail.

[–] Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 minutes ago

No, I'm not being optimistic. I'm being observant.

You can assume the worst behaviour of people like Trump without falling into defeatism. He doesn't have superpowers. He lives in the same reality you and I do.

We know for a fact that major economic slowdowns such as the bond markets getting "yippy" (his word, remember?) will cause him to back off. There are things he's not willing to break and he's proven that.

And we know that despite all his rhetoric about ignoring courts, he never actually seems to follow through. The National Guard got redpployed to other cities. Abrego Garcia got brought back to the US. The shutdown ended before he could actually be tested on his threat to not hand out food stamps. He never actually defies the courts, when push comes to shove. Instead he relies on running ahead of them.

That's still bad. It's why new cities are being picked as targets for crackdowns, and they're now trying to deport Abrego to a different country. No one is defending him here, or implying that he's in any way respectful or subservient to the rule of law.

But he exists in reality. He's not a demon or a god or a phantasm from another dimension. He operates within the rules of the same reality we inhabit. There are limits on what he can do, and if you're paying attention you can start to piece together what those limits are.

That's not optimism, that's just knowing your enemy.

[–] tempest@lemmy.ca 2 points 3 days ago

It's the second one.

The checks and gentlemen's agreements that the US government is based on don't mean shit as Trump has proven.