this post was submitted on 11 Nov 2025

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510

Feature parity or get out (lemmy.world)

submitted 2 months ago by mycodesucks@lemmy.world to c/linuxmemes@lemmy.world

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[–] Natanox@discuss.tchncs.de 119 points 2 months ago (2 children)

What's always funny to me when someome brings up missing features of Wayland is how, apparently, the missing features of X11 are getting pushed under the table or somehow also blamed on Wayland in some twisted way. Like, holy shit, compare the display settings of KDE on a modern display between Wayland and X11. My laptop didn't even show a third of all options anymore.

Sure, it will be nice once Wayland can do a few things (better), the current development push surely helps. But it's not like X11 can do everything either.

[–] turdas@suppo.fi 85 points 2 months ago (4 children)

Yeah. "Feature parity or get out", like dude we're long past feature parity.

Wayland supports so much more stuff than X11 does, and what does X11 have that Wayland doesn't? X forwarding? Just use a modern remote desktop solution, all X forwarding was doing in "modern" times (read: the 21st century) was streaming pixels anyway, just less efficiently than modern remote desktop.

[–] Redjard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 28 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I still use X forwarding.
It works just fine using xWayland, and X forwarding has always been so janky there is no chance to notice any difference caused from using xWayland instead of native.

It will surely take many years and well established wayland native remote tunneling before anyone thinks of ditching xWayland.

[–] First_Thunder@lemmy.zip 21 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Multi window apps are still broken, and the wayland protocol guys have been dragging it for more than two years

[+] monogram@feddit.nl 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (3 children)

[deleted]

[–] klangcola@reddthat.com 29 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

The main one is KiCAD (electronics design).

They have a good article on the challenges they're facing on Wayland, worth a read https://www.kicad.org/blog/2025/06/KiCad-and-Wayland-Support/

[–] First_Thunder@lemmy.zip 19 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I don't, but some people like multi window GIMP, and apparetnly several applications in the automotive (kiCAD for example) and scientific field

[–] FishFace@piefed.social 0 points 2 months ago (3 children)

People who like multi window gimp must be a very special kind of nerd. I used it before single window mode was added, but when it was I never looked back. Positioning each subwindow in a way that didn't suck was such an absolute pain

[–] Bo7a@piefed.ca 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

But that pain was once. And then you shoved that config into your dotfile svn and never did it again. Mine has followed me since like 2010.

(This is not me taking part in the wl/X11 argument. I am just one of those multi-window gimp nerds)

[–] Sxan@piefed.zip 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

It's not a pain if you use a tiling WM, and doesn't KDE remember and restore window positions yet?

alias hc=herbstclient
# GIMP
# ensure there is a gimp tag
hc add gimp
hc load gimp '
(split horizontal:0.850000:0
(split horizontal:0.200000:1
(clients vertical:0)
(clients grid:0))
(clients vertical:0))
'               # load predefined layout
# center all other gimp windows on gimp tag
hc rule class=Gimp tag=gimp index=01 pseudotile=on
hc rule class=Gimp windowrole~'gimp-(image-window|toolbox|dock)' \
pseudotile=off
hc rule class=Gimp windowrole=gimp-toolbox focus=off index=00
hc rule class=Gimp windowrole=gimp-dock focus=off index=1

[–] FishFace@piefed.social 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

it's not a pain

Here's the dozen lines of config I had to write and tweak and debug to make it tolerable

Uh huh. You do you.

[–] Sxan@piefed.zip -1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

It's not cool to write someþing as if you're quoting me saying someþing I didn't.

I literally copied þat off þe herbstluftwm web site. I had to write, tweak, and debug noþing about it.

[–] FishFace@piefed.social 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Yes if only there were some way of detecting whether the quote was accurate or not 🙄

[–] Sxan@piefed.zip 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

You're aware comments can be edited?

[–] FishFace@piefed.social 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Are you suggesting people might think you really said what was in the joke quote, and that you edited your comment into something else?

[–] Sxan@piefed.zip 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Yuppers

[–] FishFace@piefed.social 1 points 2 months ago

OK, I don't think that is realistic.

[–] eager_eagle@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

ah that was so annoying, and nowadays using tiled windows, that's something I don't see myself doing anymore

[–] SlurpingPus@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Hold on, so I can't run Transmission that has the torrent list in one window and torrent details in another window? Only one single window per app? What insanity is this.

Every app I know opens a window for the preferences, how is this solved in Wayland? Even just the typical Explorer-style file manager requires multiple windows to function. And of course, I always have a dozen Firefox windows open.

[–] Yoddel_Hickory@piefed.ca 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Oh multi-window works, it is mostly just that applications cannot geometrically position them themselves. There are other small issues, but thay is the main one I hear. It is a non-issue for things like settings and Transmission, since you just open another window and do not really care exactly where it os relative to the other ones. It often ends up being on top. For multi-window Gimp it is worse, as it is toolbars and modules, and the app wants to place them precisely relative to one another. This is currently not working in Wayland, but they create new extensions all the time so it is only a matter of time IMO.

[–] SlurpingPus@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago

Thanks for the explanation. As it happens, one of my irks about the Windows version of Transmission is that it doesn't remember the position of the torrent-properties window. I want the list on the left, the details on the right — particularly since Transmission reuses the details window, essentially treating it as a pane. This worked splendidly on MacOS.

[–] bobo@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Yeah. "Feature parity or get out", like dude we're long past feature parity.

Ok, replace the xfce/KDE wm with something like i3 and then keybind all of the commands that aren't wm specific through a global hotkey daemon like sxhkd.

[–] hoppolito@mander.xyz 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

https://github.com/waycrate/swhkd ?

[–] bobo@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 months ago

I could never get it to work.

[–] turdas@suppo.fi 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

If you're waiting on Wayland to reimplement the thing that made X11 a monolithic unmaintainable mess, you'll be stuck on your rotting platform from the 80s for a while.

[–] bobo@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 months ago

Having modular DEs is what:

made X11 a monolithic unmaintainable mess

https://lxqt-project.org/blog/2025/09/22/2-way-of-wayland/

https://lxqt-project.org/release/2025/11/05/release-lxqt-2-3-0/

[–] jojowakaki@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

I switched to Wayland. I think I have almost everything working except keepassxc's global hotkey and autotype. Also certain apps like ardour, I have to manually break components off from the main window and move to different monitor to get the "multi monitor" functions going. This I know they have been trying for 2 years now, anyday now.

[–] cley_faye@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I can't copy/paste from a terminal program to a GUI program under wayland without jumping through hoops and configuring every individual program to use some variant of a DE-specific utility that bypass wayland's model to peek/poke into the clipboard.

That's not a minor feature to me. And in my (and probably some other people) case, trading basic copy/paste for not-yet-implemented differential DPI scaling does not sound too great.

Some people are adamant to not switch, but I swear some people are so adamant to force everyone else to switch without even considering that their use case might not match other people use case, it's infuriating. It's not like me staying on X will degrade everyone else's experience of the new shiniest thing.

Distribution moving to wayland might be good in the very long term, but for now, when you have a 3080Ti (a relatively recent card) and it breaks basic desktop composition when switching to wayland, telling people "just throw it out and buy another card instead of keeping your currently working system" is not going to help anyone.

[–] Natanox@discuss.tchncs.de 9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

What are you talking about? You can copy-paste from Terminal programs to GUI programs and vice-versa like everywhere else (with the terminal of course needing CTRL + SHIFT + C / V, which as we know is historical to Unix terminals). I'm doing that for years, so does my family. It works just fine.

And bringing up Nvidia now really is bending down backwards to paint Wayland as bad while it's painfully obvious it's the driver's fault. We all know the classic Nvidia driver sucks in more ways than one and loves to break, even Nvidia knows that and works on a replacement. That's not Wayland's fault.

[–] cley_faye@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

What are you talking about? You can copy-paste from Terminal programs to GUI programs and vice-versa like everywhere else (with the terminal of course needing CTRL + SHIFT + C / V, which as we know is historical to Unix terminals). I’m doing that for years, so does my family. It works just fine.

I'm not talking about copy/pasting from the terminal emulator, thank you very much. Just run VIM and have it copy/paste from the global clipboard without setting up esoteric, sometimes DE-dependent stuff, and you'll understand.

And bringing up Nvidia now really is bending down backwards to paint Wayland as bad while it’s painfully obvious it’s the driver’s fault.

Sure. I did not say it was wayland fault. Or anyone else, really. I explained why some people could not "just move on to wayland already you nincompoop" with very tangible issues that still prevent them from doing so. Who is at fault is of no consequence here. If I switch to wayland, I lose features, I have a broken desktop, and throwing away thousands of equipment because "it's the future" does not sound that great. It's just a matter of fact. Whether it's wayland's fault, plasma's implementation's fault, nvidia's fault, or anyone else's is irrelevant to the user experience here.

People can't go "stop using X and use wayland", and ignore raised issues by saying "no, that issue you're having is not a big issue", "that issue you're having is not wayland's fault", "that issue you're having does not concern most people", etc. And reading replies in this thread, it seems people have a hard time imagining circumstances beyond their own.

[–] ne0phyte@feddit.org 3 points 2 months ago

I've used this neovim keybind for years:

vim.keymap.set({'n', 'x'}, 'gy', '"+y') -- copy
vim.keymap.set({'n', 'x'}, 'gp', '"+p') -- paste

I was able to copy/paste between nvim and other applications on sway, Hyprland, Niri and KDE on Wayland.

The global clipboard register + should also work in modern regular vim afaik.

[–] PlexSheep@infosec.pub 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Thats not entirely true. wl-copy exists and I use it, but it's not fully there yet. Things like slackadays/clipboard are still fucking around with weird Wayland issues.

I'd like better clipboard support, but alias c=wl-copy is good enough most of the time for me. And it works in neovim as well.

[–] cley_faye@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Yeah, I know of such "solution". But what is the point of forcing the change when it doesn't bring me tangible benefits, brings significant downsides, and only some of these downsides have half-useful workarounds?

I have no problem with whether wayland existing or it becoming the new standard, but forcing people to move in these circumstances seems a bit silly, especially when some issues stem from people having hardware from one manufacturer that represents around 75% of general consumer systems (according to Steam survey, which might or might not be representative but sure brings a lot of people).

Thankfully, at least with the distributions I use, switching back and forth is trivial. But given the circumstances, I don't really understand the extremely heavy push.

[–] urandom@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I don’t think anyone’s forcing anyone to do anything. But not a lot of people are stepping to to maintain X

[–] cley_faye@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

While it's certainly winded down over time, XOrg is still maintained. Last fix was released in september 2025. Is it enough? It never is. But that's not really an argument to move from "working" to "not working as well" for now.

[–] urandom@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I thought most of the maintenance went towards Xwayland, though I don’t follow it that closely

[–] cley_faye@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

It mostly did, yes. But when a big issue pops up, X still gets the occasional patch.

And, since this is a bit of a hot topic it seems, that sounds fair to me. X is the past, wayland is the future. I'm just annoyed at people glossing over the reasons not everyone can move on.