this post was submitted on 05 Nov 2025
87 points (97.8% liked)
chat
8550 readers
152 users here now
Chat is a text only community for casual conversation, please keep shitposting to the absolute minimum. This is intended to be a separate space from c/chapotraphouse or the daily megathread. Chat does this by being a long-form community where topics will remain from day to day unlike the megathread, and it is distinct from c/chapotraphouse in that we ask you to engage in this community in a genuine way. Please keep shitposting, bits, and irony to a minimum.
As with all communities posts need to abide by the code of conduct, additionally moderators will remove any posts or comments deemed to be inappropriate.
Thank you and happy chatting!
founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
And I'm begging know nothing online posters to look up the history of how successful third parties emerge in the United States, it's through interparty RUPTURES
WE DON'T HAVE A POLITICALLY SELF CONSCIOUS WORKING CLASS PARTY and you're not gonna build it from scratch in the imperial core, 100 years of sectarians trying has made that clear enough
We are one step behind the self-conscious conception, so we are forced to meet the masses where they primarily engage with politics and that's the two party system, the point is to create a rupture within the party, pushing the capitalists out or more desirably forcing them to push us out so we can use the resulting rallying-cry leverage to create a viable third party with the self consciousness you're looking for and that requires victories, Bernie's dumbass couldn't give us that baseline, Zohran has gotten far closer
All the benefits of electoralism that quote outlines are fully realizable even within the degraded conditions we find ourselves in, the quote isn't promising imminent revolution, it's observing the emergence of self-consciousness among workers after electoral contention and that doesn't always require your book club conception of a 'workers party'
That is how successful bourgeois third parties completely captured by capital have emerged, yes. Not sure how it's relevant though.
Again, how are these images relevant?
During imminent inter-party ruptures that lead to the birth of viable third parties, the host party experiences a crash in popular support, while the emergent party goes from electoral victory to electoral strength, leading to a complete realignment of the entire US political system
Bernie was supposed to trigger a similar rupture 10-5 years ago through his victories, but his incompetent liberal ass obliterated that momentum and led to a resurgence of neoliberalism
But now, Trump's second victory, the Gaza Genocide, and Zohran's rise has restarted the countdown to an interparty rupture
Yeah I get that... but why should I get excited about a bourgeois party rupturing and creating another bourgeois party?
I don't know, maybe it'll trigger a civil war and we'll all die on the anarchist barricades waiting for the 'One True Leftist' to come save us
That's more fun, right?
Damn I forgot that communist organising was a binary choice between “dying pointlessly on a barricade” and “becoming a shill for radlibs”. Thank you for enlightening me, o theoretical one
The endpoint of all these discussions
Oh NOW we're done with binary thinking, how convenient, careful some of your friends may see that as "opportunism"
Ah yes I forgot, American “socialists” get to have a little exceptionalism, as a treat
You're just throwing out buzzwords now, nothing I outlined above implies exceptionalism, a multitude of countries face similar degraded conditions that require interparty ruptures to generate more radical third party challenges to the status quo
Mexico and the emergence of Morena is a good example