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At this point, most Americans recognize that if Dems vote to end the shutdown, they are really surrendering health care for a large swath of American families. It will take 5 Dems to vote yes, and destroy American health care (making it worse than it already is). Any Dem that does that before this is resolved, should be officially primaried out of office.
Even many MAGAs see this, but are pretending to not see it, for the good of the party. But starting on Saturday, they will all have to come to grips with their new health care premiums, and most will realize that if the Dems vote Yes, those new high health insurance premiums become PERMANENT - and that is exactly what MAGA wants.
The Dems are winning the propaganda war for a change, and as of Saturday, they have the unassailable high ground to demand anything they want.
But what they will really do is eventually fold, thinking that if MAGA takes their health care away, they'll just fight for it back after they win in 2026 and 2028. Then they'll lose both of those elections to massive election fraud, that they will deny as hard as MAGA.
what healthcare? the insurance subsidies that go to private insurance companies that don't have our best interest in mind?
democrats never intended to help did we would have living wages, more funding for education, less police, universal healthcare, etcetera
You must be too young to remember when American had ZERO options, other than to pay a lot of money for terrible health insurance. Now we have the same terrible options, but at least they cost less.
And Democrats are ACTIVELY working for all those things you mentioned.
Higher minimum wages:
Red states are still stuck at the Federal level of $7.25, but Blue states are higher, often twice as high or even higher. Even MAGA HQ Florida's minimum wage is $15. It's the Dems that have been working to lift wages and support unions and workers' rights. Sure, they could always do more, but at least they aren't actively moving us toward slavery, like MAGA.
More funding for education:
Yeah, Dems have ALWAYS been about that. It's MAGAs who want to kill public education, and only let wealthy kids have decent PRIVATE educations. Have you ever heard a SINGLE Democrat call for the end of the Department of Education?
Less Police?
Are you paying attention at all? Dems are constantly taking fire for the very poor choice of the phrase "Defund the Police," which MAGA was happy to smear Dems with.
Universal Health Care:
I wish more Dems were on board, but many are, and absolutely NO MAGAs are. If you want Universal Health Care of some sort, it's going to come from the Dems, not MAGA.
There's a big difference between not wanting something, and not accomplishing something. The Dems WANT all those things, they've just been bad at accomplishing them, due to their fundamental weaknesses as human beings, and their feral fear of being bullied by MAGAs. Lately, they have grown a bit more of a spine, but it may be too late.
If you want those things, you will only get them through a Democratic government. MAGA wants to take those things away, then kill you. Minimum wage? There's no minimum wage. Education? Health Care? Pay for it. Can't afford it? Too bad, you should have gotten a good education, so you could have a good job, given to you by your rich father's fraternity brother.
Dems aren't fundamentally evil, like MAGA, they are just frustratingly, infuriatingly weak and cowardly. They have the moral high ground on everything, and yet they refuse to use it. They are too fucking polite, and we will lose our Democracy over it.
last democrat president fought for segregated schools and spearheaded crime bills designed to put people away in zoos for the rest of their life and was hugely religious plus loved big oil
president before that one was republican but worked with democrats notably walz who strongarmed oil pipeline protesters all on Native American land granted by treaties
the one before him was democrat for two terms who ran on a platform of hope\change but we ended up with private health insurance subsidies and no living wages or anything else
no point going back further all the same and do not want that high ground or politeness for the United States
Sure, blame Biden for his single vote in a complex political environment from 50 years ago, and then blame Obama for trying, but not fully accomplishing his agenda against a ferocious Republican Legislature who had openly pledged to wreck his presidency, even if they had to wreck America to do it. Mitch McConnell actually said that, then followed through. But it's Obama's fault for not accomplishing EVERYTHING.
Look, I'm no Democrat, I've been an Unaffiliated Independent since I registered to vote in 1977. I don't like either party. But it is clear that one is trying - poorly, but trying. The other side is clearly, actively, enthusiastically, EVIL. Destroying America is literally entertaining for them.
The Democrats don't operate in a vacuum, they are constantly under vicious attack by MAGA, who literally wants to kill them, and EVERYBODY on their side. Stop blaming them for not winning every battle against the evil, cheating MAGAs.
wait what battles have they won?
The ACA that MAGA is trying to kill, for one. Beating Trump in 2020, for another. They've had quite a few, but they've also taken some losses that were at least partially self-inflicted.
The message to working people in red states is "we got ours, fuck you."
It's the dems whose final message to working people was Sinema's thumbs down.
And dems were happy to have the excuse to, as biden gleefully said in a state of the union address "Fund the police!" He was clearly eager to get back to the brutal status quo. And he got a standing ovation for it.
Enough lies. Democrats have been claiming to want things and then doing nothing to pursue them for decades. They dropped everything for netanyahu's slightest whim, since it what they wanted to do. It's the only time I've seen them chuck incrementalism out the window. It's the only time I've seen them actually stand for something in the face of pushback.
If democrats were a quarter as serious about keeping their campaign promises as they were about giving netanyahu whatever he wanted, you wouldn't be like "we totally wanted to do what we voted against. bEhInD tHe ScEnEs."
You make no sense at all. Sinema was never any kind representative of the Dems. To use her treasonous record as representative of the Democratic agenda is wildly disingenuous, and destroys any credibility you have.
Stop thinking like a MAGA Traitor, and start thinking like an American.
Then they need a new messenger, because her thumbs down is the entire democratic message to workers.
Stop acting like a class traitor.
You can struggle all you want to make Sinema the face of the Democratic Party, but the truth is that she is an irrelevant footnote, whose own constituents replaced her with a different Democrat. They literally fired her.
If you want an example of a Democrat standing up for workers, then point to Joe Biden attending the picket lines of various strikes, while he was campaigning for president. You can question his sincerity, but at least he was making the gesture, instead of demonizing them.
And "Class Traitor?" WTF is that? What "Class" do you think I belong to that I am betraying?I have never once thought of myself as belonging to ANY Class, other than my graduating class. Truly baffling.
None has been more clear on labor.
biden's appearance on one picket line was a photo op to try to gloss over how he had broken the rail strike.
Oh, you don't like being called a traitor? Or is it only ok to use that word when you're using it to claim that anyone to your left must be all the way to your right?
Dude, you keep trying to make Sinema relevant, she's sooo not. You're like that MAGA I recently spoke with who kept trying to make me defend JFK. WTF?
CLASS Traitor? What Class? Or are you just saying you are just making some nonsensical claim? Whatever, you're point isn't clear, and if it's what I think it is, it's pretty weak.
Besides, I've been lifelong patriot, from a military family, with a degree in history, and excellent Critical Thinking Skills. NOBODY could ever make a case that I'm a traitor, except actual scummy traitors desperately trying to flip the script.
National minimum wage hasn't gone up since she stood with you and against workers. Her thumbs down remains the definitive final message from democrats to the workers they only pretend to want to help.
"everyone to my left is all the way to my right. I get to call you a traitor while I stan for anyone who votes to keep millions in poverty"
Stood with me against workers? WTF are you talking about? I'm about as pro-labor as it gets.
And what does minimum wage have to do with it? The Federal Minimum Wage has been raised only twice since 1997, for a total of $2.10. The last time it was raised was in 2009, when it was raised to the current $7.25. Sinema didn't enter Congress until 2019, a decade later. NOBODY has raised the Federal Minimum Wage before or after Sinema, so I don't understand how she is responsible for it, or why you seem to think she is leading the Democrats in DENYING (?) an increase in the minimum wage. Has MAGA been pushing for an increase, and Dems are resisting it, citing Sinema, even though she isn't in Congress?
Here's a suggestion - figure out what the fuck you're talking about, and then try posting. Until then, you're only making an idiot out of yourself.
Do I have to show you the video of her thumbs down?
And no, she wasn't leading the democrats in making sure the workers you want to stay poor stay poor. She was carrying out the party's agenda when she made sure to cheat workers out of wages for you.
They pretended to try in 2021. Sinema and 7 others, mainly from blue states that already had increased minimum wages, were willing to go on the record as hating workers. Those were only the ones willing to put their names down. There will always be enough anti-worker members of the party to do what you want and block minimum wage increases for you.
Stop assuming that everyone who disagrees with you doesn't know what they're talking about.
If seven BLUE states tried, and failed, why do you blame Democrats for the loss? Clearly, Republicans were the ones who voted it down. At least Democrats were trying.
Instead of dealing with the FEDERAL Minimum Wage, which the MAGAs shoot down every time, the Blue states have increased their STATE minimum wages. EVERY Blue state has done that, but few Red states. Most Red States are still at $7.25, some are as low as $5.15, and some don't even have a minimum wage, they just default to the Federal min wage, a clear message that their workers don't have the support of their state government, and have to be protected by the Federal government.
In any case, EVERY single state that is still stuck at $7.25 (or lower), is a Red State, while not a single Blue state remains at $7.25.
So tell me again how it's Democrats who are keeping the minimum wage down, and not the Republicans. If Republicans wanted a higher minimum wage, then why isn't it higher in Red states? And if Dems are against an increase in the min wage, then why has EVERY Blue state increased their mind wage? Your supposition that Dems are against an increase in the minimum wage, and have actively fought against it, simply isn't supported by any historical evidence. In fact, the evidence easily contradicts your argument.
For the last fucking time, at no point was the Democratic party EVER following the lead of Kristen Sinema. She was out of step with the rest of her party so badly, that she eventually left it and became an independent, and was then primaried out of office. The Democratic Party was never led by Sinema, she betrayed the party.
Your insistence that Sinema's poor leadership is the reason for the Democrats' failures, and that somehow she is still influencing Democratic politics is extremely wrong, and not only that, it is weird. It's weird how you absolutely insist that it was Sinema who led the Democratic party astray, when her stubborn resistance to Democratic issues made her anathema to the party. She was NEVER leading the Democrats in any way - exactly the opposite is true.
I can't stand Sinema, she was a traitor to her party and to America, but I'm not going to blame her for all of the Dems problems. They've got a lot of them, many self-inflicted, but not one of their current problems has anything to with Kristen Sinema, who doesn't even exist anymore, as far as American politics go. Stop trying to pretend she has any voice at all anymore, or ever really did. She was a pain in the ass, at best, never an influential leader. It's bizarre to suggest otherwise, and indictive of a strange fixation on her.
Finally, I don't insist that everyone who disagrees with me is wrong, just you, because you ARE wrong. You, on the other hand, insist you are right, when you clearly aren't, to an embarrassing degree.
You're deep into cringe territory, dude. Just stop it.
Good lord, you deliberately misunderstand everything. The states that voted no ON THE NATIONAL LEVEL already had higher minimum wage AT THE STATE LEVEL so they and their constituents didn't give a shit about anyone else.
Which is why it's never happening at the national level. You got yours. Fuck everyone else.
She didn't screw over workers hard enough for you. No one ever can.
Yeah, that's what I said. She was following the party when she fucked over workers.
Wait, so the MAGAs in the Red states won't raise their own state minimum wages, and they vote down EVERY minimum wage legislation, and because one turncoat Democrat voted along with the MAGAs, you are going to blame ALL Democrats for it? Even though they brought up the legislation and tried to pass it, instead of the MAGAs who traditionally vote against it, along with a few MAGA Manchurian candidates?
Besides, why should Democrats save Red State voters from themselves? If they want to vote for lower wages for themselves, and happily send it to others for taxes or tithes, that's on them. Blue states are smart enough to take care of their citizens, so when smart people emerge in those Red state shitholes, they have somewhere to escape to, where they can make a better life for themselves under Democratic law.
But you keep telling yourself that MAGAs are good for workers, and the Dems are the true enemies of the workers. I'm sure you'll find lots of agreement out there - from other simple-minded MAGAs like you.
Because of that, those of us who committed the grievous sin of being outnumbered by maga chuds have to rely on the national party's willingness to get any increase in the minimum wage. Our state parties are useless, and it's a good chunk of why our states remain red. Their leaders are more interested in preserving their positions within a losing party than in winning. Democrats in blue states see their legislators working for them. Democrats in red states see no one at all working for them, even when democrats have a majority. They see a party that has abandoned them, completely and utterly.
It wasn't just one. 8 members of the Democratic Caucus were willing to go on the record as voting against working Americans. And because most of them are from blue states that already have minimum wage increases, their constituents won't care since they already got theirs. Almost a fifth of the caucus. And those are just the ones who were comfortable enough in their seats to go on the record as hating workers. If the party needed more to block an increase, they would find more.
Sanders brought it up. Sanders is not a democrat, as democrats are happy to use as an excuse for their reprehensible anti-democratic behavior in 2016.
Because they allegedly want to flip those states. Because compassion for your fellow humans doesn't end in your own community. This "got mine, fuck you" mindset so prevalent in the democratic party's republican-adjacent wing goes a long way toward explaining why centrists thought genocide was no big deal. It's not in their backyard, so it's not a problem.
I never said that. Of course they're worse. I don't want democrats to continue converging toward being like them. Which is where you and I clearly differ.
You’re not wrong. Chomsky had been saying for decades we have a center right party and a far right party. People like Eisenhower and FDR would be in the Bernie Sanders category and disenfranchised by our gilded and corrupt contemporary political system. This is the whole problem.