I know his true power level is irrelevant, people that think it is were going to continue to do so though until the failure of the methods were made apparent.

Using your bread example, you've pointed out that they are missing ingredients, they deny that is a relevant factor. You are essentially arguing with a brick wall at that point until the bread doesn't rise. The initial comment was made, and it is useful to remind them when the bread that should've rose has not, but before that they'll just say, "This bread will rise."

With the bread not rising, some will reasonably realize they are using a failed recipe book. Should the fact there is evidence the recipe is failed before something that should be enough, yes? But if they were listening to that, they wouldn't be insisting it will rise at all. If they didn't know at all and were open to reason without having to watch it fail real time, the moment you said they were missing ingredients, they would have asked what you meant and would adjust what they believed, meaning the reiteration is unneeded because this group would already convert after the initial providing that trying to make bread this way failed every other time.

[–] WildWeezing420@hexbear.net 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

No all they learn is that this one batch of yeast was flawed, not yeasty enough, and go back to try it again with a new batch of yeast. Forever.

[–] MizuTama@hexbear.net 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Then no need to argue with them at all because its pointless to try to make them a baker.

[–] WildWeezing420@hexbear.net 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

So what now, communist? Are we to be two immortals locked in an epic battle until Judgment Day and trumpets sound?

Or you could give up

[–] MizuTama@hexbear.net 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

You: There is a complete lack of revolutionary potential in this particular group and thus they will pursue endless reformist attempts with a rotating cast of opportunists

Me: Then try to convince other people and groups that do have revolutionary potential as trying to convert that group is pointless if they are stoutly dedicated to reformist apologia.

You: You're a doomer.

???

[–] WildWeezing420@hexbear.net 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

i'm just japing. some small percentage of them will grow out of it, they just need to be given a kick on the butt. It only seems eternal because there's always new children coming of age who haven't learned how politics works yet

[–] MizuTama@hexbear.net 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Gotcha, I was really confused for a minute, actually sat there for like 5 minutes with paper trying to see what I was missing trying to square the circle. Most the Mamdani stans I know were literally too young for Obama, Bernie, and AOC, and no one reads Lenin (I'm only being slightly hyperbolic) so basically aren't going to learn this lesson until they're smacked in the face with it.

[–] WildWeezing420@hexbear.net 4 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

my anger is more directed at the power users (some are mods) here who repeat this shit over and over, and I know they know better. They've been on this website for 6 years, and the CTH subreddit before that. They're like 30+ years old at this point surely. That is the stubborn stone that will not move. I don't know what you do with these kinds of people. They see the repeated betrayals and failures and just keep doing it while being smug.

I think it's fundamentally a class thing. These people are too comfy and treated up.

[–] MizuTama@hexbear.net 2 points 3 days ago

Should've seen the EMPOC Zionism struggle sessions, there are some brainworms which there is no desire to fully rectify and no ability to compulsively change. I've resorted to broad snide comments since I generally enjoy the site, but there are certain things that I just accept are unlikely to change.