this post was submitted on 30 Sep 2025
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I keep asking the conservatives in my life this. Thanos snap, all migrants are gone, how has your life improved? The only straight answer I've gotten was a creative use of math to show how much the US would save on benefits. Their proof relied on an omission from their source about who is going to lose benefits. The cost of enforcement, detention and removal was outside the bounds of the original question.
As anyone who's ever seen a paystub can figure out, illegal immigrants pay for benefits (social security & medicare) they are ineligible to receive, ie, they subsidize everyone else's benefits. Their payroll withholdings also pay taxes at all levels. So, I'm curious how they figure cutting those subsidies saves.
This assumes they are still paid normally, and have taxes withheld by their employer. I know plenty of people, immigrant and natural-born citizen alike, that get paid under the table in cash, without paying any taxes.
That would require the employer cooking the books to hide income payments they'd otherwise report to IRS & state revenue departments. Often enough, illegal immigrants simply provide an ITIN (proof of work authorization & legality isn't required to get one) or fake social security number & I-9 documents, so payroll is withheld anyway. That's easier for the employer & is how I've seen it done.
Because they simply don't believe the truth of what you said. They don't believe undocumented immigrants pay taxes or even work at all. They believe they come to this country to sit around collecting welfare and getting free health care at the ER and illegally voting for Democrats.
Thats not even including the tax revenue that's lost since many pay income tax (with no representation or access to benefits) essentially propping the system up, in part, for everyone else. I assume they think they can make up the difference on tariffs (nevermind much of that cost is passed on to ordinary Americans)
When the Ottomans took over Constantinople and the Eastern Roman Empire fell, they began charging steep taxes on goods travelling from East to West. The Portugese, not content with paying the tax, launched maritime expeditions to reach India and managed to find a direct route from Europe to India going around Africa's Cape of Good Hope. This was the start of the Age of Discovery. Spain commissioned Columbus with the same goal and.. well we all know where he ended up.
The point being when you charge an egregious tax or tariff people find a way around you rather than going through you. America is likely assuming its in such advantaged position globally that it can get away with it, but history shows that no nation / kingdom can survive alone and when you try to fleece people, they will find a way to exclude you.
Ancap/libertarian types like to pitch that as a point for their world view. Still pretty much all the ones I know IRL and online all still voted for Trump. DOGE was a major gift for them too as it was a way to import ancap president Javier Melei's ideas from Argentina to the US. Bit ironic how they've switched to pretending they never liked it or that Trump is a lesser evil.
It's worth adding that the Portuguese then took advantage of their stoutly-built, cannon-armed ships to loot and annihilate the existing shipborne traffic in the Indian Ocean. "Age of the Protection Racket" would be a better term than "Age of Discovery".
Oh the first Portugese colonists including Vasco da Gama was inhumane monsters no doubt. The absolutely horrific, inhumane shit he did to take control of the Indian Ocean trade route makes him notorious.
What's funny is how little people in previously colonial empire nations know their own history. A lot of these Christopher Columbus-esque folk are lionized in the European nations they came from. Which is a pathetic lack of introspection for such a highly educated place, in my opinion.
I mean humans have a great capacity for evil but European behaviour during the colonial era? Damn. Based on scale alone that has to be the benchmark for evil in the modern era.
I mean ... for all time. Even the Assyrians would be like "damn, you rode those people like horses and cut off their hands? We never did shit that bad."
And let me guess: that doesn't consider the increase in expenses going towards funding ICE...
Absolute speculation in response to a question about current state.
Reminds me